Brass-era Overlands

[scott12180]

Could someone give me a little lesson the durability, reliability, quality and drive-ability of brass-era Overlands? 

 

I've never owned one and don't know much about them.  But weren't they a fairly large producer at the time and sort of a competition to the Model T in the low priced class? 

 

Do they make good tour cars today?  Better than a Model T, or is a Model T the better choice year for year ?  Are parts a problem? Do things break or wear out due to manufacturing design flaws? 

 

Apologies for being pretty ignorant here !. .... Thanks

[trimacar]

Overland produced a number of different models, from planetary transmission (akin to Model T Ford) to high horsepower progressive shift models.

 

Thus, you need to be a little more specific in your request.\ for information, if you have a specific model and/or year in mind.

 

A lot of early Overlands were equipped with transaxles, thus the transmission hung directly in front of the differential.  A good design if all is right, a bad design if things go wrong, it's a lot of unsprung weight on the back axle, and linkage for shifting is interesting.

 

So, the answer to your question?  Yes, Overland made some very nice early cars.  No, they aren't perfect, and depending on the model, there are challenges involved.

 

If you want an easy to fix, great support group, automobile, go with Model T.  If you want more horsepower or more features, there are a lot of brass cars that are of interest.

[motoringicons]

I owned a 1913 Model 69 Overland that I rebuilt mechanically and toured with for a few years. During that time I put about 5,000 miles on it.

I also own a 1912 Model T that I have had for about 30 years and have driven it about 30,000 miles through about 20 different states. It has climbed Pikes Peak and Mt. Washington.

     As brass era cars go, Overlands are pretty robust, simple and dependable. They have a five-main bearing crankshaft which makes their engines pretty durable. I guess if there is a weak point, it would be the driveshaft. One end of the driveshaft has a weird, universal joint that has sliding components which allow the clutch to go back and forth (hard to explain verbally). The other end has a not-so-good sleeve that connects the drive shaft to the input shaft of the transaxle. Both of these ends can be troublesome. I had to have modern replacements made and the end result was fine. The rear end ,transaxle and wheels all have bearings that can be purchased from any good bearing house. The engine is pretty basic with the exceptions of the two aluminum water manifolds which tend to rot out. Replacements have been made over the years but I do not know if they are currently available.  I think I used some modern GM valves in the engine which were a near exact replacement and I think Egge was making pistons at that time. There are a fair amount of early Overlands around, so advice and assistance is more plentiful than on other early cars. They are light and easy to drive if they are sorted out right.

    If I were to get another early Overland (and I have thought about it!) I would definitely get a Model 69, 79, or one of the other models with the sliding gear transaxle. Some of the earlier Overlands have a planetary transaxle (kind of like a Model T transmission bolted on the rear end). I think the "Holy Grail" of early Overlands would be one of the 40HP Model 42s which I believe were built in 1910 and 1911. I have been in a few of these and they are pretty powerful tour cars plus they have open front touring bodies (by 1912, the touring cars had doors in the front). The large HP models are pretty scarce. The Model 59/69/79s which were built in  1912,1913 and 1914  are about 30HP. These smaller models show up for sale somewhat regularly.

     The Willys-Overland Knight Registry (WOKR) is an active group with an amazing reference library available to its members. They can provide copies of owners, sales and parts manuals. They also have the original drawings for many of the early Overland parts which they provide to their members. When I had my car, the club was extremely helpful.

   Of course, a brass Model T is a brass Model T. Everyone should own one. If I could only own one old car, it would be my 1912 touring.

Edited December 11, 2015 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[scott12180]

To be more specific, yes the car I am interested in is a 1913 Model 69, as the above post addressed so well.  Thank you.  

 

What I am looking for is as close to the kind of reliability that a Model T might bring but in something a little bigger, a little better ride, a little more quality than a T.  Nothing against Model T's ---- I've owned four over the years. But they are Model T's. . . . . small, hard ride, etc.

 

If anyone else can share their 1913 Overland experiences, I'd appreciate your thoughts.  But also. . . .

Maybe I can expand this question a little --- if I guy wanted a 1912-1914 brass car and wanted something other than a Model T, like I said above, what would you recommend he look for?  Budget  in the brass-T category.

[trimacar]

^{Your last post is an entirely different question.}

 

^{The higher HP Overlands are out of Model T budget.}

 

^{A 12-14 T brings decent money, high teens to mid 20's, more depending on correctness.  So, what's comparable in price but better?}

 

^{EMF comes to mind, as does some Buick and Hudson models.  I think for 1912-14 T money you can find a 25 or so horsepower car, with sliding gear transmission and three speeds (a plus more than you can imagine).}

 

^{What you can't find for T money is an abundance of more or less inexpensive parts, a great club, and a support group beyond compare.}

 

^{I have a friend who can afford just about any car, he owns and tours Model T, because of the club activity and parts availability.  He once had an engine fail in Alaska, two days later he was back on the road with a "new" engine.....that's not possible with just about any other brass car...}

[Mark Shaw]

I am partial to Buicks because they tend to be relatively under-priced in the market & for being robust comfortable touring cars.

[Guest trainguy]

I have had 2 model 69 Overlands.Traded one for a 1911 EMF demi..To discribe the Overlands in one word Fantastic.Great performance,reliable,comfortable,all around good cars.As with most early cars they 

have their problems.Just like EMF they suffer from transaxel issues.But I feel the are one of the best brass era cars for the money.Like others have stated that Model T Fords are great cars which I agree ( I own 3 Ts} but ht Overland is still my favorite.Phil