old D.B.coil, starting problems.

[trini]

Are these ignition coils from a 28 D.B available as a reproduction ? I am trying an after market made by Echlin. The engine ran for 15 seconds and quit never to start again with the original coil. I replaced it with the Echlin. Ran for about for about 2 minutes and quit again. Oil pressure is 30 lbs. Carburetor keeps flooding when choke is closed and keeps leaking for a while. What am I not doing right ?

[CarlLaFong]

Are you sure the coils are bad?? Flooding, to the point of leakage, is not very conducive to a good running engine

[Spinneyhill]

Carburetor keeps flooding when choke is closed and keeps leaking for a while.

Start by looking at the float valve in the carburettor. It should not flood. No engine will run if it is drowning in petrol. The fuel pump (vacuum tank system?) appears to be working well. This much flooding means the engine oil might be a bit dilute now too.

[trini]

Thank you, Spinneyhill, after some frustrating hours I found the problem. I isolated the vacuum tank for faster vacuum build up. It started . The idle is not so good. The 80 years spark plug (T11 )needs replacing. So far the oil is still good. I think with gravity flow the seat will not seal tightly. May be ,just may be, it needs a little pressure to push the float up against the needle. I am thinking a low pressure electric pump, say like 2 pounds

[Spinneyhill]

If the float valve is not sealing, there are at least two possibilities.

1. It is worn. If the seat is not circular or has a chip or anything else, it is no good. If the needle is not a nice conical taper (e.g. has a grove), it is no good. Both can probably be fixed by a person with a precision lathe for doing small work (e.g. perhaps a clock maker, or a carburetor refurbisher, some machine shops). If a fitting new set can be found, xclnt.

2. Check the float level. If too high, the petrol level in the bowl will be too high and it will run very rich and maybe flood, as you found. The float is designed to have sufficient flotation to put the required amount of force on the needle to stop the flow of fuel, as long as it is floating at the right depth. Too shallow (= set too high) = not enough force.

This applies to float and valve in both carburetor and vacuum tank. Fix these and don't mess around with modifying something that works fine when set up properly. It is flooding, remember, so there is plenty of fuel. Fix the taps that regulate the fuel flow. Any exhaust smoke?

Leave the plugs until you are sure the fuel system is working properly and well. Then start looking at the elements providing the spark. Test the spark plugs before tossing them out. If you are getting a good spark, keep it for the time being. Ask the internet about what a good spark looks like.

[trini]

Thank you, The vacuum tank is still in the original state .I will not modify anything because I like the originality. The engine had bee rebuilt about 20 years ago and never started because the previous owner did not have the right carburetor, I got a reproduction UX_2. It is working fine now. It emits a bit of white smoke . Now that the engine is running I will connect the vacuum tank. No more flooding issues .Whenever I use the choke a little drop of fuel comes through the bleed hole , I think that is normal. I am very excited to hear the engine run. I take your advice .Cheers and have a nice day

[Guest cben09]

Look for an owners manual,,,,It should have good words on the vacuum tank,,,

Cheers,,Ben

[trini]

Hi cben09, thank you for the advice. I have one. I followed the instruction. Repaired with new gasket. This one is large with one gasket only. I will have to find a way to do a bench test. I think I should change the flap because the old one has a tiny grove. After isolating the vacuum line at the manifold and done all the tweaking on the carburetor the engine started but did not run long enough to do final setting. The air idle mixture is not responding. The engine still wants a little bit of choke to stay running on idle. When the engine is shut off it will not crank immediately after. It has to cool down a bit. Radiator is full and there is really no overheat. The engine has been rebuilt by the previous owner over 20 years ago and never started. After pouring oil in the cylinders and leaving for weeks I had to use a 3 feet pipe on the wrench to turn over the engine. I is now easier to turn. I am making progress. I am using a Carter B. B. 1. The oil pressure on idle is 30 pounds and at fast speed is 40 pounds. Can you tell me what the idle speed is ? Cheers mate and have a nice day.

[Guest cben09]

Not trying to be a wet blanket,,but,,,,

Sounds like a ametur rebuild didnt take out the groove at top of cylenders,,Ridge reamer to rescue,,

Vac tank:: Not fussy at all on gasket,,its the most reliable thing on there,,,

Flap valve mostly operates under gas,,,groove not important,,just so the valve is not

broken in half or stuck to the seat,,Getting the pin on the BIG float to go in the hole,,pain,,,

Hold the cover in left hand,,,put 2 fingers on top of big float and FEEL the pin into the snall

hole,,,works nicely,,IF the float sinks / leaks,,tank will fill to TOP and flood engine,,

Really fffloood it,,,but thats easy to diagnose,,,just take off the pipe //tank to manifold,,

and it will run on the gas in the 2qt tank,,

I hope you guys are writing this stuff down an puting in the handbook,,Packard tank works the same,,They are more dependable than a gas pump,,no rubber stuff to get eaten by E85 gas

Idle speed not important,,,,Just enough so it dont stall,,Cheers,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

Ridge at top,,,,,My above comments,,,,would apply only if he put in + ,010 rings an' didnt hone the taper,,,,If its an almost situation it MIGHT loosten up,,,DON'T hold your breath,!!!

The alternate is broken rings,,maybee broken ring lands on the piston,,,

If you have only ONE coffee,,,you should get the pan down,,,,head off,,and be ready to measure

in less than 2hrs,,be careful lifting the head,,,you may be able to save the head gasket,,

I hope the tight spot is NOT the rods and crank,,,Un bolt the rods,,,push up the pistons and if its still stiff,,,,,,,,Take 2 and call me in the morning,,,,info on re shimming the bearings

Cheers,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

Is this a 6 cyl or 8,,,,,,Is it a pressure rod or splash,,,,,

I was thinking splash like my old 26 fast 4,,,,,,Cheers,,Ben

[trini]

Hi Ben, S51041 is the serial # on the engine. A senior 6. I am not ruling out anything in the engine. It is cranking bump, bump, bump, (not a steady smooth spin) as if the battery is weak even when the engine is cold and the spark plugs out. But the battery is new and charged. I strongly suspect it is a re condition and not a rebuild engine. The oil pressure is 30 pounds. The engine has an oil pump. I am going to run it a little more to see if it will loosen up and take it from there. The vacuum pump is fine. I serviced it. A little tricky though. I shall keep you posted. Cheers.

[trini]

Hi Guys, Thank you all for the advice and comments. I figure it makes good sense to change an 90 year old ignition coil and the spark plugs. Napa still supplies after market replacement. I would have liked to see the original coil and plugs go forever just to keep it original. Some things must change. The problem was the throttle lever on the steering wheel. I actuated the high speed pump causing the flood. I put the throttle lever in low, cleaned the flooding, pulled the choke and the engine started and ran long enough for me to adjust the needle behind the carburetor bowl to a nice idle. A little high R P.M . Lots of white smoke for a while but it all went away after ten minutes. The oil pressure at around 800 rpm is 50 lbs. and the charge rate is 30 amps. That is at the top of the gauge. I am elated. The throttle lever is fickle at best and I still have to learn how to use it so as not to flood the carb. The engine has the wrong fan belt, too long. I am thinking of replacing with "link belt".