IGNITION OAKLAND MODEL 25 1910

[gilletman]

Hello, i have a problem with my oakland that does not want to start anymor. I dont have the info of how the ignition timing should be. wat is the folowing order for cilinder firing, 1-2-3-4 or wat?

thanks for all replies.

rgds.

[Dandy Dave]

Four cylinder engines have 2 firing orders. 1-2-4-3, or 1-3-4-2. Often it is cast in the block or manifold on many engines. If you do not see it written, it is easy enough to figure out. Just pull out the spark plugs and feel the compression coming up in the cylinders each 1/2 turn of the hand crank. I would say most likely it is 1-3-4-2. A car as early as 1910 should have a magneto. Could be the points are oxidized and need cleaning. To get deeper, it could also be a faulty coil or condenser if lack of spark is your problem. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 1, 2014 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[gilletman]

thanks dave. the problem is not lack of spark. I drove the car in januari, no problems. i parked in the garage and now it wont start. cleaned the carburator, sparkplugs, chequed the compresion, cleaned the magneto. nothing works. onley thing i noticed is the compresion on first cilinder is 0,5 more than the rest. 2,3,4 have 3,5 and 1 has 4 kg

so i was thinking maybe the ignition timing was moved somehow?

an other question poped up. as i was measuring the compresion, i chequed also my model a FORD;

I NOTICED NO COMPRESION ON CILINDER 2; i just chequed the valve clearence and notice number 4 has no clearence. i want to adjust it, but there are no screws. than i remember i dont have a model A block, but a Model B. is there special tools for this to adjust the valves. ?

i wil start an other topic on this. for the model A i found a nice video, bun on the model B nothing yet.

thanks again.

[GLong]

If you drove the car, then parked it, and it now won't start, and you do have spark, then it's most likely the fuel.

Fuel sitting around does go stale. I've had this or similar issues almost every spring when starting the cars for the first time of the season.

I'm sure your Oakland has priming cups on each cylinder? Buy some fresh gasoline, and prime each cylinder, then see if it will fire and run.

I had a bit of difficulty getting my '15 Chandler to light off a day ago. I usually start it standing by the right side of the engine, where I can manually engage the starter, and manipulate the throttle and enrichment lever. It would crank, but not start, I had pumped up the fuel pressure, it had fuel. Even starting ether didn't get it to fire.. I was resigned to checking the points in the mag, but I gave it one more try from the driver's seat, with the clutch pedal held down. The faster cranking speed without the drag from the transmission was the trick: the magneto is NOT an impulse type, and it needs a bit more cranking speed.

Once running the '15 sounded great, I can't wait for the mud-season to be over, and warmer days.

What type of spark system does your Oakland have? Timing rarely just 'jumps' or changes, without something like a bad backfire, a seeming 'stuck' engine that is forced to turn over etc.. The timing chains, or gears don't change relationships easily.. Unless your Oakland has one of the early experiments in timing gears, made from Leather, or fiber or? Sorry, I just don't know the Oakland very well, a shame, I grew up near where they were made.

GLong

[gilletman]

The car was not sitting for a long time. I drove it and onley a few days later did not run good. than i cleaned the carb, and after nothing at al anymore. Chequed the carburator several times to see if i did anything wrong. I did try with fuel directly in to the spark plug hole, with onley a big bang (sometimes) as result or nothing at all.

the sprark is made by magneto, and can onley revese 180° if you put it wrong. but i did not remove it in the first place. later i did to clean the magneto inside. a litle oil was in the platinum point case. so i was hoping problem solved, but no. stil the same.

[Guest cben09]

O-K,,,were gaining,,,its magneto ign,,,,NO battery???,,Not a dual system???

What make of mag,,,,

#2,,,Lay out the 4 plugs,,connected to wire,,,turn engine briskly,,does it spark

If it does,,,turn slower an' see how fast / slow it needs to go to spark,,,

Is this a Remy system with the external coil,???

Good luck,,Ben

[Dandy Dave]

Not to steal the thread or anything but there ARE engines with a 1-2-3-4 firing order. Not common. Here is a picture of the crankshaft from my 1-2-3-4 engine. Up_Down_Up_Down. There are many other interesting aspects of the crank (and entire engine for that matter).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]241045[/ATTACH]

I have also read about and seen pictures of 1-4-3-2 (or 1-3-2-4) cranks which were used sometimes where siamesed inlet ports were troublesome.

Up_Up_Down_Down

For those who do not work on fours: Normal cranks are Up_Down_Down_Up

Yes, there is always off the wall stuff that a few were built early on. Not common place. Even with that said, pulling the crank though and feeling the compression will still give you the firing order. you cannot go wrong with that method.

[Dandy Dave]

Also, Just because you have spark does not always mean that it is hot enough. If it is yellow and weak, it just will not ignite the fuel. The better the compression, the hotter the spark needs to be. Even after over 40 years of working on everything from soup to nuts, and I must admit that I am still learning new stuff all the time. If there was nothing new, I would have been bored and moved on to something different a long time ago. Dandy Dave!

[Rusty_OToole]

VW beetles were 1-4-3-2 but that was a flat engine - not flathead, but horizontally opposed or "boxer" type.

[Dandy Dave]

VW beetles were 1-4-3-2 but that was a flat engine - not flathead, but horizontally opposed or "boxer" type.

Yes a different configuration. That would be like comparing a straight 6 Ford 300 with a Corvair engine. I have a very good handle on this kind of stuff. It is the very early designs that really intrigue my interest. Things like a rotary valve Engine. Or an engine with side shaft valves and ignition. Some of the stuff they did pre 1920 is the most interesting. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Yup. We can go around and around about all the possibilities. Tried and true designs with the best harmonics, materials, and balance, will last the longest.

[Guest cben09]

Did we check to see if the mag fires the plugs lying on top of the engine,,,,yet

It was a ign problem we were on,,,,,, Is it a Remy mag w/ separate coil,,,,Cheers,,Ben

[gilletman]

Wel, thanks for al the reactions, but not quiet to the point. I explaned my 14 year old daughter how an engine works, and she came with folowing solution. If you remove the sparkplugs, put a leaf (of a tree) on the hole, turn the engine, the leaf wil blow of wen presure builds up, (or sucked in). so, the leafs wil blow of in a sudden folowing order, and you know wich cilinder build up presure in the wright folow order. this order should be the same as the ignition order...........

Smart or not. it works. just take care the leaf does nog get sucked in the the engine.............

[Dandy Dave]

Smart Girl. Buy her some tools and get her wrenching gramps. Dandy Dave!

[Guest cben09]

Your daughter has a brilliant grasp of basic physics,,

A few more pop quiz,,and a reward is in order,,,Ben

[gilletman]

The reward you can find on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnCDc82RGaIn howerver she failed on mathematics this semester. But possible because she got sick, her results in scool were not as good as normal.

[Dandy Dave]

Nice. Keep her interested. Tell her old cars are 10 times better and 10 time less trouble than boy friends. Dandy Dave!