65 Riv, aftermarket Carter AFB & kick down help needed

[RockinRiviDad]

Bare with me guys…I've never built a car before

 

I bought this Carter AFB Competition Series #9605S 2401 (600cfm) to replace my Rochester 12 years ago. Well the AFB sat on my garage shelf neatly wrapped in plastic & packaged in a styrofoam molded cardboard box while my Riv sat parked in the driveway rotting away for 13 years.

 

 

 

Now I'm bringing my Riv back to life & realized I may have the wrong carb. Hopefully someone has experience with this carb & can give me some direction with my questions.

 

1) Is 600 cfm enough? I read a post that said the ideal nailhead range is 600-675 cfm. Is that right??

 

2) My motor has been rebuilt but not fired up yet. Would u guys have this new carb gone thru or roll the dice and run it hoping it won't leak when I break in the motor? I was gonna roll the dice (don't know if that's wise)…

 

3) I still have to adjust the switch pitch arm to free up the dust boot. But how much distance does the arm actually need to travel for the switch pitch & kick down to work? I don't know that the travel on the new carb is the same as the old???

 

 

 

The link below shows the steps I followed to get my trans kick down switch to mount up to the carb using the adaptor bracket pictured.

 

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?174871-Edelbrock-1406-(600cfm)-to-401-Nailhead-HELP!

 

 

4) The new carb has no choke. But it has mounting holes for one. Are the electric chokes the preferred option? Sorry still learning.

 

 

5) The old carb has a brass fitting in the rear passenger side of the base for the trans module line. The new carb does not have this. Where do I plug the trans module line too?

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by RockinRiviDad (see edit history)

[Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel]

Hi David- looking good. Your set up is similar to hoe I had ine with an edelbrock carb. It ran pretty well but when I put the un rebuilt carter back on it was even better. CFM's can be higher, if you have made any cam improvement you may want to consider more carb.

Make sure the exhaust heat passages are blocked or use the metal gasket to shield the bottom of the carb.

the brass fitting has a specific size orifice, use it if you can - any vacuum port on the intake can be the source for the transmission.

Check your kick down switch travel by operating the accelerator - you have to figure out how to get the pin located so it produces the whole range of travel for the switch, determined by the radius of the arc made by the stud.

I think it will start ok with the new carb. Have you already found an aftermarket air cleaner?

[RivNut]

Your engine will run fine w/ 600 cfm. Remember, some of these 401's just had a two barrel carb on them albeit the compression was lower. That being said, it's really hard to over carb a nailhead. In the same configuration, the engine supported a 750 cfm Rochester Q-jet in 1966 and ran two 625 Carter AFB's from 64 - 66. Doc over on the V8Buick forum is running a 900 cfm Holley three barrel on his nailhead. Considering the choices of gas you have available today, the 600 Edlebrock is probably a good choice as long as you have the s/p function and kickdown working. You can pull on the switch to see how far it needs to travel to make contact.

Ed

[RockinRiviDad]

Thx for the help Ted

Good to hear this carb will work. The engine is stock (no cam work) other than the cylinders being bored .060 over.

 

Back when I was driving this car (over 13 yrs ago) I blocked the heat passages & forgot about that until I got the engine back from the machine shop months ago. I had the heat plate here waiting for the engine to arrive & called Russ Martin for his advice. He said run the metal plate & gasket even tho my passages are blocked???

 

About the trans module line. U said any vacuum port on the intake will work. So just to clarify, it doesn't have to be on the carb? Even if I mimic the attachment to a vac port like at the transmission end of the steel line? It has a small section of rubber hose connecting the steel line to the module?

 

Oh man so the kick down switch has to travel the whole range? That's gonna be the hard part. I will have to spend more time on that to get it right. Might have to fab something up.

 

Yes I did find an after market air cleaner. I went with the Mooneyes finned alum housing with a K&N filter.

 

What is your opinion on a choke for this carb? I read the specs sheet & apparently it's set up for a manual choke. But I don't think I want that right?? Thx again.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by RockinRiviDad (see edit history)

[RockinRiviDad]

RivNut said:

Your engine will run fine w/ 600 cfm.

Considering the choices of gas you have available today, the 600 Edlebrock is probably a good choice as long as you have the s/p function and kickdown working. You can pull on the switch to see how far it needs to travel to make contact.

Ed

 

Thank for the help Ed.

I am glad 600 cfm is enough. I was hoping not to have to buy another carb. But in your post u mentioned the 600 Edlebrock is a good choice. I'm pretty sure u meant my Carter in question…I don't wanna buy another carb lol

 

I read the directions u gave in another post about putting 12V to the yellow wire of the switch pitch to test the solenoid. I will try that today. But to test the actual switch u say pull on the arm? Would the combination of hooking up 12V's (using the black & yellow wires on the switch) & pulling on the arm to test the solenoid also tell me the travel needed?? Hope that makes sense…

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by RockinRiviDad (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Look for my response within your quote.

Thank for the help Ed.

I am glad 600 cfm is enough. I was hoping not to have to buy another carb. But in your post u mentioned the 600 Edlebrock is a good choice. I'm pretty sure u meant my Carter in question…I don't wanna buy another carb lol I guess that I just saw the Edelbrock package for the linkage; I went back and looked at the pictures. I ran a similar Carter Competition on my '63 for a while. I thought it was a good carb and liked it. Mine also had the manual choke - that I did not like however. I know of a fellow ROA member who is running two of the Carter Competition AFB 9000 Series on his '64. Both of those carbs are 750CFM. I think he put an electric choke on a manual carb. He drove it to the meet in Lexington last June with no problems.

I read the directions u gave in another post about putting 12V to the yellow wire of the switch pitch to test the solenoid. I will try that today. But to test the actual switch u say pull on the arm? Would the combination of hooking up 12V's (using the black & yellow wires on the switch) & pulling on the arm to test the solenoid & also tell me the travel needed?? Hope that makes sense… If the switch and wiring is easy to get to, you could connect the yellow wire to a 12V lamp socket and ground the socket base to the switch and manually pull on the switch to see what kind of travel the switch needs to make a circuit. Isn't the arm on the switch also adjustable in and out?

Go with an electric choke. You'll need to find a choke housing with linkage to bolt to your carb, once you've done that, you can run an electric choke. I think that Tim Nugent did this with a carb; maybe he'll chime in.

If you can find a donor AFB for the choke housing, I think that if you wanted to, you could swap the top of the donor carb onto the new one and run a factory air cleaner. I know this is possible with the Edlebrock repo AFB but I'm not sure about the new Carters. The OEM style top would also give you all of the choke linkage you might be looking for.

Ed Regards,

David

[tenugent]

The ckoke part i got from Ed was for a carter afb.i did buy a electric choke online and it works great-no problem with cold starts anymore.got me off my butt to check manafold choke valve-i believe it was stuck-was getting black soot out of pass.side exhaust-might want to check yours.T.Nugent roa 12969...

[RockinRiviDad]

RivNut said:

If the switch and wiring is easy to get to, you could connect the yellow wire to a 12V lamp socket and ground the socket base to the switch and manually pull on the switch to see what kind of travel the switch needs to make a circuit. Isn't the arm on the switch also adjustable in and out?

Go with an electric choke. You'll need to find a choke housing with linkage to bolt to your carb, once you've done that, you can run an electric choke. I think that Tim Nugent did this with a carb; maybe he'll chime in.

If you can find a donor AFB for the choke housing, I think that if you wanted to, you could swap the top of the donor carb onto the new one and run a factory air cleaner. I know this is possible with the Edlebrock repo AFB but I'm not sure about the new Carters. The OEM style top would also give you all of the choke linkage you might be looking for.

 

yes my switch and wiring are easy to get to...I tried using my charged 12v cordless drill battery to hook the yellow and black wires straight to the transmission and nothing happened. So I used a voltage/continuity tester to make sure the battery was charged and the continuity in the wires were good. Does this mean my transmission needs attention?

 

Sounds like the electric choke is the route to go. I thought I would be able to buy a choke with its housing & linkage for this carb. Is that not the case? Now I am thinking from how u described it is that because this carb was manufactured for a manual choke it might be harder to find a housing and linkage for it??

 

I have an aftermarket air cleaner from Mooneyes that I plan on running which I bought back when I bought this carb.

Edited February 11, 2018 by RockinRiviDad (see edit history)

[RivNut]

...I tried using my charged 12v cordless drill battery to hook the yellow and black wires straight to the transmission and nothing happened.

Probably not enough ummph in the cordless battery. I've never heard of the solenoid in the trans going bad, but there's always a first time. There are two spades on the terminal on the transmission. One is horizontal, the other is vertical. Look at your wiring harness so you know which terminal is the s/p terminal. Get a long enough "hot" wire to go from the car's battery to the correct spade. Get under there with your stethoscope and touch the wire to the spade while you're listening. If the car's battery is hooked up correctly, the transmission will be grounded so you'll only need the hot wire.

[RockinRiviDad]

RivNut said:

Probably not enough ummph in the cordless battery. I've never heard of the solenoid in the trans going bad, but there's always a first time. There are two spades on the terminal on the transmission. One is horizontal, the other is vertical. Look at your wiring harness so you know which terminal is the s/p terminal. Get a long enough "hot" wire to go from the car's battery to the correct spade. Get under there with your stethoscope and touch the wire to the spade while you're listening. If the car's battery is hooked up correctly, the transmission will be grounded so you'll only need the hot wire.

 

Very grateful that u are giving me all this direction Ed thank u. This is what I'm working with

 

 

So I don't have a car battery hooked up yet. Although if u think using the battery out of my truck will work then I'll pull it.

 

Another option is a 19.2v cordless drill battery I have. Should I try that or will I fry something?? Also, both horizontal & vertical spades go to the switch pitch (yellow & black wires) right?? That's why I've been touching black & yellow to my drill battery while its plugged to the trans.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by RockinRiviDad (see edit history)

[RockinRiviDad]

Ok so today I pulled my truck up close to my Riv. I attached a lead to each of the spades on the transmission terminal. One to the horizontal spade & one to the vertical spade. It was quiet in my garage, I laid my ear on the transmission while my neighbor touched the other end of the lead's to the battery on my truck…nothing happened. We tried it again with the leads reversed & still nothing…am I missing something or doing something wrong? My neighbor said he's not convinced my solenoid is bad…so what is it??

Regards,

David

[RivNut]

Where was your ground attached? You'll only hear the s/p not the kickdown.

[RockinRiviDad]

We had both leads (hot & ground) from the transmission terminal straight to the hot & ground battery terminals on my truck. Then switched polarities and still nothing. Am I not doing it right? What else can I try?

Regards,

David

[Guest lowered65]

I am having same problem with mine David, not getting any power from the actuator, don't hear any solenoid kicking.

Where did you find your switch pitch setup? I am assuming it's new?

Edited December 27, 2013 by lowered65 (see edit history)

[RockinRiviDad]

Switch is my old stock one. It cleaned up nice. I didn't even paint it lol

I was doing the switch pitch solenoid test wrong. Ed helped set me straight… lower65 heres what u gotta try (if your not doing it already).

The transmission terminal spades (both horizontal & vertical) are for different functions. One for the switch pitch & one for the kick down. They are not hot & ground spades like I thought. So Ed had me ground the trans to my power source (I backed out a bell housing bolt enough to retighten my ground wire under it & attached the other end to the ground on my truck battery). Then I touched each spade individually with a hot lead attached to the hot on my truck battery as I listened with my ear to the trans…still nothing. Although, I could hear the slight arcing click sound of me actually removing the hot lead from the vertical spade (horizontal spade did nothing at all). I was told later that the sound I was testing for is faint enough that it could be masked by the arcing click I was hearing. Anyone agree to that advice??

So I will try it again when I can recruit some help. Next time I plan on leaving the hot lead attached to vertical spade on the trans. Then I'll have my assistant stand at my truck battery to touch the other end to my battery while I lay my ear to the trans.

Wish me luck and HTH

David

[RivNut]

So I will try it again when I can recruit some help. Next time I plan on leaving the hot lead attached to vertical spade on the trans. Then I'll have my assistant stand at my truck battery to touch the other end to my battery while I lay my ear to the trans.

Wish me luck and HTH

David

It would probably be easy enough to just install and in-line switch in one of the wires. You could then connect the wires semi-permanently and use the switch to control the power to the solenoid.

[RockinRiviDad]

Update: I was unable to hear or feel anything that would make me believe my switch pitch is functioning. So I decided to move on and not worry anymore about it. At this time, I will put it together and hope for the best when the I do get it running again keeping in mind what may be needed. Thanks for all your help gentlemen...