1949-1955 dodge/plymouth brakes

[Guest wilbur46]

Hi guys,

I'm working on my 1950 dodge coupe.

I need help with some brake problems.

(1) the rear brakes have new cylinders, however they leak.

The problem is the pins are too long. they compress the seals so hard that fluid gets by them.

I proved this by clamping the pucks at the cylinder ends and, presto- they don't leak.

What the heck.

(2)Are the pins different lengths front and rear?? ( pins that connect the pucks to the shoes)

I get the feeling that the po took all the brakes apart at once and threw them all in the same can.

If anyone has their car on jackstands doing the brakes, could you look at the pins and see if they are all the same length?

Maybe some incorrect pins have been substituted.

Thanks for i9nfo and suggestions

Wilbur

[Guest Bob Call]

Wilber

Looking at the Andy Bernbaum catalog it shows only one pin for 46 thru 56 Dodge and Plymouth and 46 thru 55 DeSoto and Chrysler. If your pins are too long they must be for some other application. If you need new pins, check with Northwestern Auto Supply in Grand Rapids, MI. If they don't have them check with Bernbaum. Bernbaum lists them for $2.50 each in their catalog.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Bob Call (see edit history)

[c49er]

You need the short pins for your type of W/cyls and piston combo.. There are three different styles of pins BTW.

[Guest wilbur46]

Thanks very much for the replies.

c49r---that is the conclusion I have come to.

I finally found an illustration which shows the front cylinders using long pins and the rear cylinders using short pins.

I'm gonna jack it up and fix it!!

Regards,W

[c49er]

In most situations the short (replacement pins) are the ones that won't get you into trouble. It all depends on lining wear and wheel cylinder piston style as to which style of pins to use. Replacement wheel cylinders use to include the shorter pins..

Bob

[Guest wilbur46]

c49er,

Know where there is a good buy on a full set of cylinders and hoses?

I've decided to go all out.

Do the 10" brakes and the 12" brakes use the same cylinders?

(that is what the Raybestos catalog says. But some listings say "not applicable"

Thanks again and Regards, W

[c49er]

All MoPar 1946-54 cars use the same wheel cylinders. 10"-11" and 12" all use the same wheel cylinders.

[Guest wilbur46]

Thanks for confirming that.

I found the best $ at rockauto under the Plymouth listings

I hope to be rolling soon.

Regards, W

[Guest wilbur46]

Hey Bob,

So--new cylinders. they are the correct fit, but ???? three have 1 3/16th long pin size and one has a 3/4" pin ??

Any chance that there were supposed to be two pin sizes per side?

To get the drum on, I need a long pin in the top cylinder and a short in the lower????

I sure am sorry to be a pest, but I've never done these brakes before, and (the bad part) they were dismantled and re-assemble wrong when I got the car.

Getting the engine to run, the trans and clutch to work , the radiator/thermostat working and the electrical system up were childs play, but these darn brakes are driving me nuts.

I guess I need a better manual. I'm using a Motors that stops at 1950, but the illustrations of the brakes are general not specific.

Any ideas appreciated

Regards, W

[ply33]

Maybe if you can center the shoes with the drums off you will be able to see what rods work properly. Too long or too short a rod should show up pretty quickly when you try to center the shoes with an reasonably accurate gauge.

One of the official ways was to use a special Miller (factory) or Amco (non-factory) set of tools to center and adjust the shoes before the drums went on. Here is what an Amco tool looks like:

But a little imagination can save you some money as those vintage tools can get expensive. I've seen photos of homemade tools using PVC tubing, wood blocks and threaded rods but am unable to find a photo at the moment.

[c49er]

Use the shorter pins. Don't use a long and a short pin. New wheel cylinders I have installed all came with the short pins. This new stuff I guess anything goes!!!! If you don't use or have the Ammco 1750 or Miller brake shoe adjustment tools point the two rear lower anchor bolt arrows to each other and on the front wheel double wheel cylinders the arrow points to the wheel cylinders. This is the the factory original anchor bolt settings with stock drum size and standard thickness linings.

I cannot go into depth on the tool and shoe anchor set up as it's too involved for me to describe on the forums-done it enough times already. I have done many of these lockheed brake jobs over the years and will let others teach the shoe to drum fit/radius anchor adjustments ect.

I will say if you have the shoes arced to fit each drum you do not need the special tools to adjust the shoes for a firm pedal. Just set the arrows as I have stated. Then adjust the shoes -rotate the 3/4 adjustment bolt to cause the shoes to lightly touch the drums, drive 500 miles, then one more minor adjustment of the shoes and you should have excellent firm brakes assuming the hydraulics are working correctly too.

Bob

[Rusty_OToole]

I thought of contouring new shoes with a sanding block and checking the fit by setting them in the drum and seeing if they touch at all points. Never tried it though.

[Guest wilbur46]

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for all the help!!

After another attempt, I was able to determine that one (new) cylinder has to use a shorter pin. It must be a different manufacturer.

At last I am able to install the drum and they spin freely. I'm familiar with the adjustment as I also had these in a 49 Chevy. I usually saw a slot in the bolts, and am able to adjust them perfectly from the back.

By the way, If anyone needs these cylinders, rockauto.com---$15.00 each!!!!!! They are nice ( if you have a car that hasn't been fooled with)

It is a good thing this wasn't a flat rate job tho!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope I'll be able to post a "I got 'em" tomorrow.

Thanks again, W

[Guest wilbur46]

Thanks again for all the help and info.

My brakes are finished!

I did, in fact, have to shorten 2 pins until I was able to get 1 rear cylinder to seal. My theory is that the long pins compressed the seals until they were distorted. The minute I shortened them to 1", the cylinder sealed up fine.

Finally, I slotted the shoe bolts, enabling me to adjust the shoe position from the backing plate. TA-DA!!

As an aside, having owned several 49-51 Fords, they have the same type spindle carrier AND Bendix brakes. Something for me to look into.

Next project is the front windshield seal. I'll switch threads to address that.