Mystery Engine - Car Nation?

[TonyAus]

This engine has recently surfaced and, so far, has defied identification. Probably around two litres or less it is fitted with a Detroit Gear and Machine transmission, Eisemann G4 magneto and Zenith carburettor (not present in attached photos).

The head is fixed, the valves enclosed and a camshaft driven oil pump presumably assists a splash lubrication system.

The whole mess smells strongly of prorietary items which were once fitted to a very small American car - judging by the narrow mounting points. Best guess so far is that it is from a Car Nation but information is fairly scarce on this rather obscure make. Wikipedia suggests that the Car Nation was fitted with a Herreshoff engine but Georgano mentions that Hereshoff used Lycoming power. Is this in fact a Lycoming unit?

The Car Nation is not unknown here in Australia so they may be a chance that this guess is correct. Are there any Car Nation owners out there who may be able to confirm or deny its identity. At the same time, can anyone make an alternative suggestion.

Thanks in anticipation.

Tony

Edited December 25, 2011 by TonyAus (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

Try asking on All about Antique, Vintage and Pre-War Cars - PreWarCar

[Guest noncompos]

There's a Car Nation 4cyl 18HP cyclecar (Detroit, Mich, 1912-15), listed in Std Cat Am'cn Cars, but its powerplant/s are referred to therein as air cooled.

Herreshoff (1909-14) is desc therein as originally/primarily building engines for marine use, and a company slogan referred to therein implies their reputation as marine engines was already established by 1913 or so.

Language therein implies the Lycoming engines came in around 1913 (perhaps when they went to a six??) but isn't specific.

1909/10 models are listed with 24 HP 4; 1911 with 24 and 30 HP 4's (which could be same engine tweaked or just wound up tighter); 1912 with 25 HP 4; 1913/14 with 30HP 4 and 40HP 6.

If nothing definite turns up here you might try oldmarineengine and such sites for pix/info/similarities re' their marine engines of the period.

Perhaps someone has info as to whether the Lyc's were the 6s or 4s, too.

On that point a 1917 ring catalog just lists Herreshoff 4's as all 1908-14 taking 3 3/8--3/16 rings, BUT the 1908-10 models have a 4ring piston, while the 1911-14 models have a 3ring piston.

That catalog is by ring size, each size listing cars,etc taking that size, and included is the Lycoming "Y" engine, taking a 3ring piston, which could be just a coincidence. Remember parts catalogs are seldom complete and often questionable.

That catalogs' name index specifies truck, tractor, engine, marine engine, etc to differentiate from cars; Herreshoff is listed as cars are, so presumeably its the car engine listings. With sympathy, Bud

[TheMoneyPit]

Looks marine going by the manual lever (broken) to work the clutch.

[TonyAus]

I have subsequently noticed that the oil pump drive is similar to that used by Continental. Could this be an identifier or just a generic design? All suggestions gratefully received.

[TonyAus]

Bump

Looks like Car Nation has been eliminated. Any more suggestions?

[X-Frame]

Maybe for a truck or tractor? Doesn't look quite right for an automobile.

[Guest craasch]

Possibly a GB&S . Golden Belknap & Swartz. I have one like it and also the

transmission.

Craasch of Idaho

[Guest Commodore]

Here is a photo of a 1913 Car Nation engine.