Guest outlaw car man Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Before I get into it- The steering on my 33-90 seems choppy when I turn the wheel. Hard to explain, turns ( not well ) , but turns like it's dry inside , like rubbing, turns in spurts. There is grease in the gears from inspection of the filler nut on top. Is there a common attact, or problem on this or follow the manual for adjustments and see what happens. Car has been in storage for well over 20 years, stored dry. Car is running great, as of today, Sept 29, 2011 HA. Thanks,Sandy OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 It sounds like someone has set the gearbox too tight. Jack up the car with front wheels off the ground. What does the steering feel like now? Still choppy, drop the drag link off the steering box, and check the feel of the steering. If it's still choppy, work on the adjustment per the manual. If not, you will have to check tie rod ends and kingpins for binding.Many of these cars are found with grease in the steering gearbox. If a conventional 80 -90 gear oil is used in the steering boxes, they frequently leak out the bottom seal where the throttle and light switch shafts exit the box. Consequently the grease is put in. The grease does not properly lube the bearings, worm and sector shaft. It's a mess to get the grease out. I use some of these super heavy oils such as the stuff used in Model A Ford transmissions when I rebuild the steering. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Bob is giving some good advice here... I would also check the king pins and drag link ball for excessive wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 car is up on jack stands, wheel turns OK but maybe sounds dry ??? I'll grease everything up good, now that the pressure if off, see what happens, then head fprward as directed hereAppreciate the help again. Did get to drive it up & down the block- SWEET. Seems stronger ( new engine ) then the B-90. Wonderful sound too. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 There may be what appears to be a grease fitting on the gear box; however, I'll be willing to bet that is for a heavy oil. Grease does not lubricate in most early gear boxes. Check your original lub specifications, it most probably calls for a 600wt oil. I had this issue on my "L" Lincoln. By the way............You have a fabulous car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Thanks- Appreciate the kind comments as always, that's why we own these old birds. ( I think ) There is a fitting on top that is used to fill the box with heavy weight gear oil. I think it calls for 90/150 oil. I used something close.From what I've gleaned, I think the problem may be in the roller bearings. I can move the wheel now, freely, while jacked up. I've adjusted the roller & worm shaft end play as per the manual. Have not adjusted the backlash between worm & roller ( do I need too ? ) After moving the wheel a lot, I'm hearing and feeling a constant rubbing inside the box, like a bad, frozen bearing. You can feel it from the steering wheel and hear it while moving the wheel. Like two things rubbing together, as the steering wheel is turned in either direction. It's like if there was a set of roller bearings around the steering tube and when turning the wheel, the tube is turning around inside the set of roller bearings that are dry, so there is a conbstant rubbing with each bearing?? Make sense ???It's not horrible but not normal. Annoying ! Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Here we go..........Looks like I'll be pulling the steering gear box. Unhooked everything, drag link, Pitman arm, still a a constant grind as the wheel turns in the S box. Talked with Bob & Paul , probably as thought, bearings out on the worm gear, maybe roller bearings on the sector . Appears I can remove the elec connections, drop the exhaust section from the manifold and slip the box straight down off the shaft after unbolting it from the frame. I'll remove the carb too. I can send reports on progress & photos from time to time, might help others some day, probably a winter project-Anyone else done this on a 1933 Buick large series, a contact would be nice as I;m running blind here on removal & rebuild. ( I always am tho ) Bearings may be an issue........... Suggestions on sources- Thanks,Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 First set back- Went to remove the pitman arm from the connecting rod, there was no cotter pin through the end, it as should be. OK. Appears in the manual, there is a spring behind the large cap at the end- Looks like a massive 1 " screw head. With no cotter pin, shouldn't this thing just pop out ? Inside are the shims & all. ( I know beware ). Like to do a final check of the backlash between worm & roller before I remove the whole steering box. Looks like I'll need a small gear puller to get the Pitman arm off, if it comes to that.Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Pitman arm pullers are available Sandy. I reconditioned the 39 coupe steering, and my old 39 Chevy. It's amazing how much of a difference new bearings make to the feel of the steering. The worm gear was really bad, so we had to get it repaired. I still have to adjust it all up properly. As long as you follow the instructions in the manual, you should be fine. As far as steering box lube goes, there's a product made by Penrite. We just used BP Semi Fluid Grease.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Thanks, Grant-Still don't know how to remove the pitman arm ball from the connecting rod. I guess there is the option to take it off at the front end bu the king pins, then use a gear puller and remove the PA still connected. I'm not the best mechanic in the world on stuff like this but still able to learn ( I think ) HA.Pulled the horn button and light rod connection out to adjust it . The PO/restoration shop had it in 180 off ! The steering wheel was loaded with more sandblasting sand, just left from the restoration shop that started the project and was fired 20+ years ago. This is some of the stuff I need to do to get the steering gear out. SandyPitman arm pullers are available Sandy. I reconditioned the 39 coupe steering, and my old 39 Chevy. It's amazing how much of a difference new bearings make to the feel of the steering. The worm gear was really bad, so we had to get it repaired. I still have to adjust it all up properly. As long as you follow the instructions in the manual, you should be fine. As far as steering box lube goes, there's a product made by Penrite. We just used BP Semi Fluid Grease.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sandy,If you are referring to the "drag link, the end caps should unscrew once you remove the cotter pin (that you did not have). That's how you set the tension @ the pitman and idler arm balls.Mike in colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 The drag link ( manual calls it the Steering connecting Rod in 1933 ) . Talked with Paul Rickman this morning he said the same, it's a giant screw at the end. From what I can see, in 33 the adjustments are done by adding or subtracting shims on the ball ( pitman ) inside the drag link " cover" , then I assume, as you say, this will add tension on the adjusting plug. The front is a bit different. I can take the front ( drag link) off the idler arm ( nut ) , and pull the pitman arm off ( gear puller) , I think, in one piece if I can't remove the large screw. Soaking in PB now. Maybe torch it.Seems simple but is very confusing to me. The manual shows the 50 series, then how to deal wuth the others. 60,80,90. Lot to learn. Thanks Mike. ( Colorado gold up there I assume ) Sandy Sandy,If you are referring to the "drag link, the end caps should unscrew once you remove the cotter pin (that you did not have). That's how you set the tension @ the pitman and idler arm balls.Mike in colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Got the " steering connecting Rod " off , tons of PB blaster, took the torch to it and a tire changer from a 34 Ford as the large screwdriver head. Not fun, been on there since 1933 I assume. Noise is in the box, no question now. Got to figure how to get a gear puller up next to the wheel well, and get the pitman arm off. ( sidemounts ) Next disconnet the elec, run a new wire to the horn button ( since I have a new one anyway ) and proceed. Racing old man winter....... and old man thumbs. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Next: ( working on a 1933 Buick ) Looking this project over, how basically does the steering box come out of the car ? At this stage, the electrical is disconnected and off the shaft, have the carb off for room, pitman arm is off. I can take the exhaust off from manifold to muffler to if needed. I'm guessing ( hoping) I can unbolt from the frame, unbolt from the box, jerry-rig it around and out of the engine compartment, ( praying too ) Any one that's done this, any advice is very appreciated-Thanks,Sandy Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I think we dropped ours from underneath the car Sandy. Use plenty of tape on the steering column!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Grant, thanks-That looks like an option. Remove the breather tube & exhaust pipe and slide off and down and out. Probably rotate at 90 deg, then out. I found another box off a low mileage 80 series, as soon as it arrives, I'll inventory things and move forward. Sandy I think we dropped ours from underneath the car Sandy. Use plenty of tape on the steering column!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Moving forward. I got another steering gear box and took it apart, now I see what I'm dealing with. It's off an 80 series, good shape inside too. Learned how to remove the shaft from the box too. That was a big ??? Pretty simple inside, like dealing with the front bearings on the wheels, except gears. I got the large retaining nut off the one on the car now and can see the inside bearing seal. Looks like the top third of the box has grease that is turning to a clay material, bottom still has old stinky grease in it. I've run about a can of PB Blaster inside up on the top and bottom bearings. I rehooked up the steering shaft to the dash also. It seems to now be turning VERY smooth after about a week of constant soaking and draining and turning. The front cork seal was leaking pretty bad but I have a new one from a friend on this forum ( thanks Jack) and an original Steering Box manual that is on loan.Plan B is to continue rinsing out the box till I get a fairly clean drain, then blow it out and reassemble with 600 W gear oil. Fun part, learned something new again- Also, thanks for all the help here. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sandy,Please post source and cost of the 600wt oil for those here that have similar issues.I mixed up some "knuckle pudding" for my '40. Found the recipe on the Chevy forum.Start with 140 wt gear oil and mix in moly bearing chassis grease till it pours like cool STP.I used Ruth's electric mixer till it was blended very well.The chocolate cake we had a while ago tasted a bit funny though.I forgot, Is it better to ask forgiveness or permission or the other way around ?Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) We used Penrite Steering Box Lube just recently. Couldn't find the BP product we normally use. Comes in a grease gun cartridge. Very good stuff!CheersGrantPS Mike, you're a legend! Edited October 31, 2011 by Grant Magrath . (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Haven't got that far with the oil yet, I used to get it from the Ford V8 suppliers, Gear Lube 600. Came in a plastic pint container. 8 bucks maybe. Used it in my 34 Fords. Check with your buddies in Denver, Mike, they may carry it ?OR Bob Drake, Carpenter, All Ford Parts, C&G, online. maybe Bob's haven't looked. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelod Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sandy,Here is a source for the 600-W Oil:Model T Restoration Supplies | Antique Car Restoration Parts | Model T Ford Restoration PartsThanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Mike, super, thanks-Great day in Colorado today, so I got the Steering box cleaned out today, lots of nasty goo came out of the drain plug after attacking it with all sorts of things. I'm letting everything drain out this week, then start the re-assembly, weather permitting. Everything is in the shop, all cleaned up and restored as needed. Better get the 600W honey soon.Thanks,Sandy Sandy,Here is a source for the 600-W Oil:Model T Restoration Supplies | Antique Car Restoration Parts | Model T Ford Restoration PartsThanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 FYII see that's available from Restoration Supply Company , they are a distributor for Penrite. www.RestorationStuff.com SandyWe used Penrite Steering Box Lube just recently. Couldn't find the BP product we normally use. Comes in a grease gun cartridge. Very good stuff!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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