Newbie help please

[Guest Benc197rs]

Looking for some help before I purchase. I have been looking at a 1st gen riviera thats for sale in my area for a few weeks now. Problem is I not entirely sure of what I'm about to purchase. Owner of the car is pretty useless too. He's just a wealthy business man who purchased an entire collection of cars at an estate sale and now selling them off (at a hell of a profit I'm sure of). So he knows nothing about it either. From visual inspection I can tell you its a 64 . Has a the wildcat 465 on the air cleaner when i managed to get the hood open. So i assume it has the single carb. It's been repainted atleast once that i can tell (body shop didnt mask off the trim very well). But it seems to be in great shape. On a scale of 1 to 10. 10 being the best. i would give it a strong 7 inside and out. I know its hard to say with out seening the car but whats the average starting price for a 64 Riviera. Ball park idea is fine. And is there any way to tell what tranmission it has. I have been reading that they came with both a dynoflow and turbo 400. I can tell you that the shift gate just has a D and Low. Anything i can look at and tell for certain short of crawling under the car.

[Dales90]

Newbie,

Quick 64 uniqueness items.

Stand up hood ornament, not trishield button for 63

Shift D and L are ok for 64

Riviera script badges on all exterior (BUICK on trunk is 63)

Rear quarter ss "scoops" separate 64 from none on 65

Drive it and feel the 400 tranny change gears, 63 is dynaflow, no shift feeling.

Just few of the ways..

Dale

[RivNut]

All '64 Rivierasl had 425 cubic inch engines rated at 465 lb.ft of torque. All 64's had the ST400 transmission (Buick's name for a TH400.) The sequence on a '64 shifter is PRNDL; there is a 2nd gear in the transmission, just not a slot for it on the shifter. Look at the classifieds in the ROA website and see what other '64's are selling for. www.rivowners.org

[JZRIV]

Always check the passenger compartment floors front and back and trunk closely for rust through. Peeling back carpeting or getting underneath and poking around with a sharp object works and usually the latter is less invasive in the passenger compartment. This is an area often over looked. Just doing a visual underneath isn't sufficient because undercoating can still be hanging on and hiding gaping holes underneath.

A solid mostly rust free body throughout adds alot to the value because thats where a significant amount of cost/labor is if repairs need to be made.

Detailed pictures, options, mileage, and what region the car spent most of its life in would help us provide a ballpark figure.

[Guest REX STALLION]

Check VERY carefully for rust, a repaint hides alot. Trunk,inner fenders,floors,rockers, lower rear rocker panels. All areas prone to rust. Check rear window seal for rust as well .If in doubt, take some pics and post them here.

[steelman]

One more value item these guys forgot to mention was interior. Rivieras had either a standard or custom interiors from the factory. Easiest way to tell which is which is the door panels. Standard interiors had short armrests like many cars of that time. Cutom interior models had a full length armrest with long horizontal wood trim accents above them. They also had a rear seat door handle at the back of the arm rest.

Does the car have air conditioning? Power windows? Power vent windows? Power seat? All of these options add value and were fairly popular among first generation Riviera buyers when these cars were new.

[bepnewt]

Hello, Ben(?).

You may also want to mention where you are in the world. There may be someone on here with a lot of knowledge about Rivs that lives nearby that wouldn't mind inspecting the car with you and point out the good and the bad.

If you're looking at it as an "investment" then you're going to want to know what ALL the options are on the car. Posting a clear picture of the data plate here will get you a response telling you what options are on the car - at least the ones that can be deciphered from the plate.

If you're looking at it as a car you want to drive, then the options will still impact what you should pay for it, but not as crucial as long as it has what you want.

If you can crawl under the car and check out the potential rust situation, that will help a lot. I looked at what appeared to be a really clean '64 in Dallas that had the 425 with dual quads, but the rust under the rear was so bad the body probably wasn't even connected to the frame in at least 1 spot, maybe 2. The car I ended up buying is in stellar shape as far as rust goes except for the #1 area that is the rust bane for these cars - in the trunk. Search for these forums with the 2 words "rust" and "trunk" together and you'll get a lot of information on potential rust areas that you need to check. If there's a lot of that undercoat stuff on the bottom of the car, I'd probably be afraid they just sprayed over a bunch of rust to hide it.

Pictures are worth 873 words ( inflation ). If you can get some pictures of the interior, trunk ( check under the carpet if you can ), the engine compartment, and some shots down the length of the car, etc. and post them here, these guys can tell you a bunch about the car. Specifically, they'll be able to point out incorrect things with it that you would never know unless you are en expert. Also, getting the VIN number off of the car and engine and the numbers off the tranny/rearend will help a lot, too. If you're looking at reselling, having a numbers matching car will be important to some buyers.

If you live near Branson, MO, you are in luck. The annual ROA Meet is there next week, Monday through Thursday. Check out this thread that has a link to the ROA page:

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/roa-meet-branson-mo-jun-20-a-285350.html

If you aren't in a rush to get a Riv, and you really SHOULD take your time - they aren't _that_ rare, the combined wealth of knowledge along with a bunch of example cars will be there that you can learn a ton from.

It may be frustrating that no one has answered your post with an actual dollar figure, but it really is hard to even give you a ballpark figure on what you should pay without knowing a lot more about the car. Before I knew about the rust on the car in Dallas, I didn't have a problem paying about $10k for it. After the rust was revealed, its value was cut to about 1/3 of that because I didn't want to have to deal with the rust.

-BEP

[Guest Benc197rs]

thanks for all your replies. I am gonna go try and get some pictures of it all around tonight and poke around for rust the best i can. Where would i look to find the data plate on the car i am assuming under the hood somewhere on the firewall maybe and where would the vin # be also?

[bepnewt]

The data plate is on the firewall, like you assumed. When you pop the hood, it will be on the right side as you face the car near the steering "parts" ( that's me, Mr. Technical... ).

A quote from Jim Cannon:

"On a '63, the VIN is stamped on a small stainless steel plate that is welded to the cowl under the hood, on the driver's side. It is also stamped into the top of the engine block."

I don't have my '64 handy, but I thought my vin plate location was the same.

-BEPNewt

[Guest Benc197rs]

here are some quick camera phone pics (wife has the digital camera with her grrrrrrr.....)

oh and i live in southern Virginia

[bepnewt]

Just looking at other threads on the forum, here's a partial decode of your options on the data plate. Some are guesses, some I found in another thread.

I think all the decode values are on the ROA site somewhere.

E = ? Tinted glass?

XT = ? Deluxe interior? Power windows?

2K = AC

4F = Remote outside Mirror

5Z = Seat Belts

5K = Door edge guards

And I think the original color would have been Teal Mist paint with black interior.

She sure looks like a nice candidate for purchase to me, but there's a lot you can't see, yet.

-BEPNewt

ps. Off Topic: What are the cars behind the 'Riv? A 'Stang and a Karmann Ghia / Porche?

[Guest Benc197rs]

XT = cant be power windows cause it has the hand cranks

the other cars are a t bird not sure what year and a karmann Ghia i'll probly buy the ghia if i dont get the riviera it's a pretty solid ghia just alittle small for the whole family that why i am looking at the riviera

[bepnewt]

What does the rest of the upholstery look like? Actually, you said you'd give it a solid 7 inside and out, so it's probably pretty good.

Did you happen to get a good look at the back deck under the rear window? If the window has leaked there may be some tell-tale signs there.

If that car is close to rust-free and the engine and transmission are in good condition, I know I'd give him $5k today for it right now. In my opinion, it's worth more than that, but it's going to come down to the drivetrain and rust.

Take all this with a grain of salt - I overpaid for my '64 and I'm new to these cars. A rust-free '64 with a solid drivetrain, decent paint, and interior I can live with for years to come is worth about about $10k to me.

Are you sure about the power windows? I don't have the deluxe interior, but it looks like the wing windows are crank and the main windows are power to me. I don't see a crank for the main window, nor do I know where it would actually be.

-BEPNewt

[steelman]

I see a power window switch in the passinger armrest, so it does have power windows. Brian is correct, the handle you see is for the vent windows, so they are non-powered. It does have the custom interior. If it has a power seat, those controls will be located in the drivers side armrest.

[RivNut]

Looks like a really decent car, even if it needs some restoration.

Here's the straight poop

E - EZI glass (all windows)

X - Power window (no vents)

T - Power seat

Group 2

K - Air conditioning

R - Rear seat speaker

Group 4

F - Remote mirror

Group 5

Z - Seat belts

K - Door edge guards

The PP is for the Teal Paint code and the 628 is for Custom Black Vinyl (includes wood grain console, full length arm rests, and walnut verneer on the door panels.)

The Fisher Body Plate list only options for which the employees at the Fisher Body plant had to make modifications to the body before it was shipped to final assembly.

Things like tilt wheel, wheel cover option, turning lights, Cruise control, tire size, four note horns, etc. (any thing that could just be bolted on with out modifying the body (like a hole in the door for a remote mirror) were added on the assembly line and not notated on the body plate. You'll just have to keep you eyes open for those options.

Ed

[Guest dcdpgh]

Looks like a solid car from the pics. As noted above further inspection is warranted to validate the true condition.

Not that this should matter in the decision to buy, but on a picky detail note - it looks like it has '66 wheel covers on it.