MARVEL MYSTERY OIL

[Phil 32DL6]

I know a lot of people have long recommended using Marvel Mystery Oil as a gas additive to lubricate the upper cylinders and valves. I also know that it can be added to the oil to lubricate other areas including the valve guides. Three questions come to mind:

1. Is it redundant to add it to both gas & oil?

2. Is one or the other preferred?

3. Is it wrong to add it to non-detergent oil?

[nearchoclatetown]

It will clean in ways detergent oil only dreamed about. I once put it a hydraulic lifter VW that the lifters rattled REAL bad. Left it idle while my son washed and cleaned the interior. "til he was done the rattle went away, never to return. It cleaned all the lifters out, sounded like new. I use it in several of my cars regularly, but not my DBs with non detergent oil.

[Guest Honolulu Dick]

Good Questions. Thanks for asking. I'm always mindful of this topic and appreciate the sage comments offered by those having experience. It's called learning.

Being a mid-septuagenarian, I learned about the use of MMO as a teenager. MY mentors were well into their later years, so this topic has its own extended lifespan.

Generally speaking, there is no right or wrong. It's more a matter of believing or not believing. Those having years of experience with hard working machinery tend to believe in the use of MMO. Those having less experience tend to not believe.

As to question #1. This is not a case of redundancy. These are two entirely separated subjects. One addresses delivery through the pressurized oil system, while the other is delivery through the fuel-flow system. They achieve delivery through differing means and for their own purposes.

Question 2. It is often stated that it is NOT recommended to use detergent oil or oil supplements in "older" engines that have their internals "sealed" with carbon deposits. Clean the deposits and they begin to "rattle" and burn oil. In other than newly rebuilt engines, MMO can be expected to cause more harm than good. However, adding MMO to the fuel is beneficial to the valves. No "sticky" valves to hang in the open position and seating is improved by keeping the seats "washed" clean.

Question 3. Adding MMO to non-detergent oil defeats the purpose for using non-detergent. The non-detergent is intended to lubricate and not "wash" the internals of older, worn, sludge-sealed engines.

Have been using MMO as a gasoline additive for decades. Always use it in valve-in-block engines. Have used it in hard working farm machinery, lumbering, hill-climbing trucks and boat engines. Boat engines are hard workers, they are always pushing uphill ~ they never coast or go downhill. Using MMO, as directed, results in a little extra exhaust smoke. That little extra smoke is a comfort, I know my valves are being coated with TLC.

The Honolulu Lulu is a '17 DB touring that is fueled with MMO treated gasoline. She starts in an a blink, purrs like a happy kitten and her valves tick a joyful tune.

No, I don't own any stock in MMO. I'm just one who has witnessed and believes.

Other opinions, please.

[Phil 32DL6]

Thank, HD! You confirmed what I thought was the way to go. I had already gone ahead and added 4 oz. of MMO to a half-empty fuel tank this morning, but I'm sticking (hopefully not my valves) with unmodified 30W ND oil.

Any opinions on the recommendation I see from time to time about adding kerosene to today's gas in the same ratio as the engine compression?

[Guest Honolulu Dick]

Adding kero to gasoline in the same ratio as compression is a new one to me. Always willing to listen for new ideas, but the logic behind this one is somewhat suspect. The lubrication offered by kero is on the low side, if at all. It is a decent cleaner when mixed with Gunk for cutting caked-on, hardened grease and then followed with a detergent power-wash.

Over the eons, "shade-tree" mechanics have developed many "home-remedies" using kero as a substitute for automotive "snake-oil." Had a friend who owned one of the early Buick OHV straight-eight engine cars, a relatively light coupe. With a three-on-the-tree, that Buick was the quickest thing around town. Whenever it acted sluggish or otherwise didn't perform as expected, it got the kero treatment. After removing the air filter, the engined was raced while kero was poured down the carburetor. That thing blew black smoke like a Kenworth hauling a steep, uphill grade. It kept getting he kero treatment until it finally stalled. After much cranking, it would eventually restart on gasoline and then run faithfully for the next several months. As a cleaner, the kero seemed to have produced positive results. At least in that OHV Buick. Never used it for this purpose myself. The image of all that black smoke left me cold.

Until you mentioned it, the thought of adding kero to today's gas would have never occurred to me. The thought is just too foreign, well beyond my comfort zone. Besides, why screw with success? Decades of using MMO as a gas additive have resulted in proven success.

One last story. When living on acreage in upstate NY, I was into heavy-duty gardening. Had a pair of Bolens garden tractors that worked double duty in the summer [mowing and tilling] and snow-blowing in winter. When not used regularly, exhaust valves would "hang" in the open position. These units used twin cylinder, air-cooled, opposed, aluminum, Kohler, 18-HP engines. These engines are notorious for cylinder carbon build-up. After dismounting the heads and cleaning the internal thick carbon deposits, these engines got the MMO gas additive treatment. Ran them for years without any further engine problems. Sold them only because of moving to HI

[Rusty_OToole]

The idea of adding kerosene is to lower the octane of the gas and replace the "heavy ends" that are no longer present in today's gas but were present in the teens, twenties, thirties and forties.

Low octane tractor gas would be ideal if you can get it. If not you can add some kerosene to regular pump gas. In theory your octane should look like your compression ratio, the lower the compression the lower the octane gas you need.

There were a couple of long threads on this in the general discussion forum. One man reported he drove a 1932 Buick for thousands of miles, as a tour car in the seventies, on a mixture of 25% kerosene and 75% regular gas. He said it ran great, had plenty of power, did not ping, started easy, and ran cool.

A 32 Buick only had 4.5:1 compression (I looked it up). This would suggest a fuel of around 45 octane .

If I had a pre WW2 car with compression under 7:1 I would experiment with adding kerosene. Others offered to try it in the other threads but so far no one has reported back.

I got the idea from an English antique motorcycle magazine. Their readers reported good results in using kerosene in their 1920s and 30s motorcycles.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Phil 32DL6]

Sorry, HD...I shifted gears on you without saying that adding kero was to lower the octane like Rusty elaborated on...not for cleaning purposes like MMO.

Rusty...is adding kero just meant to boost performance, or to offset some of the destructive effects of today's hybrid gas?

BTW, I drove a 1951 Buick straight 8 for years...in Syracuse, NY in the 60s. Smoothest running engine I think I've ever had! Needed an electric dipstick and a lightbulb left overnight next to the 6V battery to have an even chance at starting her on a 25 below zero morning!

Edited March 10, 2011 by Phil 32DL6 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Low compression, long stroke engines have different character than short stroke, high compression engines and require different fuel to develop full power. Low octane fuel with the heavier or oilier components, burns slower. It creates more "oomph" to push the piston down. The light fast burning gas is better for a fast revving, short stroke engine.

Those who have tried adding kerosene to gas, in motorcycles having 5 to 1 compression, report easier starting, smoother running, more power, and cooler running too.

It could also have something to do with carb jetting. I know some old cars won't run well on modern fuel unless the carb is adjusted and jets changed.

[Rusty_OToole]

You could think of it in comparison to a diesel engine. Diesel fuel is very heavy and oily. It burns slowly and makes a lot of smoke. But in an engine designed to burn diesel, it works very well. Diesel engines generally turn slower than gas engines but develop terrific power and do it, while burning less fuel than a gas engine. Even though the fuel is very low octane and contains no lead.

An old long stroke low compression gas engine is something like a diesel. The design is optimised to burn a heavier fuel, turn slower, but develop great power in the lower to middle speed ranges. It is not a high speed, or racing power plant by any stretch of the imagination.

That is the theory. Today's gas is optimised for today's short stroke, high revving, high compression engines. The only gas available for old style, low compression, long stroke, high torque engines is tractor gas and I believe tractor gas is only about 60 or 70 octane.