Turn signals and seat belts

[Guest MidTNDawg]

The thread by LennyDaVinci prompted me to think about this. Is there a consensus of thought on making these two mods? Doug

Edited January 29, 2011 by MidTNDawg (see edit history)

[LennyDaVinci]

My feelings are that, as long as they are "reversible" mods and can be removed later, they add a lot of safety to an old car living in a world where no-one looks around anymore. We can no longer rely on the novelty factor alone to keep others from running into us!

[trimacar]

Turn signals are a great addition.

There have been a few threads on seat belts, if one listens to the Engineers who design cars, adding seat belts to a car not designed for them is the wrong thing to do.

This is sure to start another back and forth discussion. In a nutshell, if you're going to add seatbelts, you have to make sure that the belt is correctly anchored, and the seat that you're sitting in is correctly anchored. Just a bolt through a floorboard is not sufficient. And, you don't want the seat belt holding you in place as the seat itself tears away from the floor.

I believe in most cases, on early cars, that seat belts bring mental comfort but no physical protection. The best safety device to have in your car is a very defensive driver.....

[Guest MidTNDawg]

Thanks for the rep;ies. Both make good common sense. I know how I would anchor the seat belts, but I had not really considered the seat coming loose. Doug

[Guest DodgeKCL]

On Sept. 12th last year I passed 50 years of driving with no tickets and no accidents. Mind you when I joined the Canadian Forces at 28 they immediately sent me out to the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) and I took their Defensive Driving course with Toronto cops and ambulance drivers as well as street car and bus drivers. Being a male it most likely saved my skin over the years. My wife has 48 years now and she also has a perfect record but she never took any courses, even to learn how to drive.

But my point is, so many 'safety' items are put on vehicles today to make up for what I consider poor driving.

To give you an idea of what the Forces DND 404 course teaches you: You should never enter an intersection with your foot on the accelerator. It should be hovering over the brake. You should always consider moving vehicles coming up to a stop light/stop sign to be going to run said light/sign and t-bone you.

The Forces was so strict with their NCO drivers that they considered it their driver's fault if they were hit in an intersection even if the light was GREEN for the military vehicle! You were never to damage Her Majesty's equipment. Their was no excuse.The civilian authorities would charge the civilian driver who ran the light but the Forces would still charge their own driver for allowing the accident to happen. In fact NCOs are given a badge every 5 years for accident/ticket free driving. If they were to have one of these accidents that was not their fault, the Forces set the clock back to to zero to start the present 5 year period over again. It was possible for a motor pool driver to never have earned one single badge. I never forgot it. I'm in my 67th year now and long retired but I still carry my TTC Defensive Driving Course card and a copy of my military DND 404 licence.

I think what I'm getting at is people are starting to hide behind all these 'safety' gadgets instead of learning to drive defensively. It can be done.

[Guest MidTNDawg]

Well said. I have completed 61 years of no accidents and only the last 58 with no ticket. Unfortunately having the fastest street car (dragging) caused a couple of tickets of minimun nature, cost of each ticket was $6.00. Then I got wised up. Riding a motorcycle makes you understand

2nd chances may not be available. Doug

[kevin b]

fyi Im still going to put seat belts in. I was on a highway rescue auto extrication team for 6 years and I know first hand that seat belts do save lives. In my 28 victory I will be going to the frame and /or making modifications to support the anchors. I will feel better for this.

[Bullfrog_eng]

I pretty much agree with all the comments on this issue. Very early in my driving career I learned two very valuable things. The first was that I could not drive nearly as well as I thought I could. The second was the value of seat belts. As you may have guessed, both these profound realisations stemmed from the same incident, which left me quite OK but my car very sad.!

But there is always a "but".

I cannot speak of the requirements of other states of Australia, let alone other countries, but to stimulate another aspect of the seatbelt issue, this is the South Australian situation. To get your car on the road, it must be "registered" (some would say "licensed"). There are actually two components of this. Basically the "registration" part ensures that the vehicle complies with the relevant laws and regulations. If it came from the manufacturer with seatbelts, it must still have them, otherwise it is not mandatory to fit them, but if you want to you can. The problem arrises from the second component of our "registration" system, that is a "third party" insurance component. If your car came from the manufacturer with seatbelts, no problem, if they were a manufacturer’s option, no problem (you can fit them). If not, the insurance company requires an automotive engineer’s report to ensure the mounting points are adequate, or your policy may be invalid. As you might have guessed, this is very, very expensive.

I am not suggesting that most of us could not adequately fit seat belts. Just be aware of your relevant local rules/requirements. Personally, with our local requirements, I would not fit seatbelts if not originally fitted to the car, despite my view that they save lives.

Regards,

John

[27dodger0]

All of our car show/swap meets have a complete turn signal kit, that includes the turn signal switch,and instructions. I believe I paid about $14 for mine. All it does is switch whatever voltage you have to make the lights work. I got Honda motorcycle signal lights at 6VDC, but had to install new wires to the lights, but it all works great.

In regard to the seat belts, mine were also purchased at a car show, and came with big bolt plates that go under the seat, on the underside of the body. It would take a lot to have these fail! All of the above were easy to install, and I didn't damage anything on the install. Chuck

[1936 D2]

There is a full discussion of fully reversible safety and convenience modifications for our "old drivers" in the current "Skinned Knuckles" magazine (January 2011, Vol 35 - No. 6). On pages 4 and 5 there is a an article in which the subject is discussed concerning your question on retrofitted seat belts and turn signals. There also is a comment on page 4 that may be something to consider. I think this applies to some States and maybe not all: "Once seat belts are installed in a car, they cannot legally be removed. Same is true, I have heard, for turn signals". So, keep this in mind too. There is quite a bit of concern in the article of properly anchoring the new belts. Consider how much your apparent body weight goes up in a crash scenario and how much stress this "restrained weight" places on the anchoring system.

There also is some good discussion on replacing all of the original plate glass on an old car to some form of safety glass, either laminated (for all) or tempered (side and back glass only). The original glass probably needs replacing anyway so it is a good idea to use safety glass.

Check it all out at: Skinned Knuckles

[Guest MidTNDawg]

This is really timely. My next question is "What to do about the glass?" My glass is perfect, but I just found out it is plate glass. The thought of a rock through the windshield is a little unnerving. I accessed the link to SK but it brought up the Feb, 2011 issue. Did not readily see how to get to Jan. Doug

[1936 D2]

Check for "Back Issues". (Their web site is not a full copy of the magazine of course. They want to sell subscriptions. But a subscription is a great idea. There is always an extensive amount of info in this restorer's magazine!)

The article essentially says that flat glass is quite easy to replace. (I used all laminate glass on my car). You could do the install yourself or have your local glass dealer do the install. They should be cut by the glass dealer though. (Leave the onus on them for any breakage during cutting!) Bring your old glass in for patterns so they can do an exact size and color copy. Be sure to keep your old glass for later patterns and authenticity discussions later. A lot of times the glass comes with the modern markings showing it is a form of safety laminate glass, but you can ask to have that cut off so it doesn't show in the final install.

It is a VERY good idea to replace the original glass!

Edited February 3, 2011 by 1936 D2
added info (see edit history)

[Guest MidTNDawg]

Thanks, and a subscription does sound like a good idea. Doug