1958 Continental - Where is fuse panel?

[Fred Zwicker]

I recently purchased a 1958 Continental 2-door hard top and cannot find the fuse panel. There is a reference to fuses, but I did not see anything showing the location. Nothing wrong, but want to be sure that I have it figured out for the future.

Also I have two (power antennas (one and an extra) and both run up when radio is turned on and run down when radio is turned off, but the antenna motor keeps running on both. Is there some type of delay relay in the radio or in the antenna that shuts off the motor? Otherwise, feel that the motor will burn up.

I ordered a wiring diagram on eBay and hope that it will give some information.

Thanks,

Fred

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I recently purchased a 1958 Continental 2-door hard top and cannot find the fuse panel. There is a reference to fuses, but I did not see anything showing the location. Nothing wrong, but want to be sure that I have it figured out for the future.

Also I have two (power antennas (one and an extra) and both run up when radio is turned on and run down when radio is turned off, but the antenna motor keeps running on both. Is there some type of delay relay in the radio or in the antenna that shuts off the motor? Otherwise, feel that the motor will burn up.

I ordered a wiring diagram on eBay and hope that it will give some information.

Thanks,

Fred

I have a '58 Lincoln shop manual hidden somewhere around here. Off the top of my head, I believe it is under the dash to the left of the glove box. In the meantime I would suggest you pickup a manual for that guy, you're going to need it! Lots of very unique things in that car, some of which were one year only kind of things. You should also pick up a copy of the transmission service manual for Lincoln transmissions of that year.

I don't recall two antenna's being any sort of option so it sounds like you may be dealing with some sort of jackass installation that needs one to simply be cut out of things. Chances are some dummy wired the add on incorrectly and that is what is causing the motors to continue to run.

Also a quick warning about the fuel system. The fuel pump is driven by a push rod which had a bronze tip that rode the camshaft concentric. Those things wear down to the point the fuel pump would seem to be failing when the problem is the push rod. If you need to know more about that beast PM me.

Jim

Edited December 9, 2010 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Correction the fuse panel on your car is located under the dash near the parking brake support. Maybe these photos will help. Look for the flasher the one in the photo is white.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulrosowicz/1399247555/sizes/l/in/set-72157601932161834/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulrosowicz/1399249379/sizes/l/in/set-72157601932161834/

It's a booger to get to and as you can tell the underside of the dash is like looking at an explosion in a spaghetti factory.

Jim

Edited December 9, 2010 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[Fred Zwicker]

Hello Jim - Thanks for the "instant reply".

I guess I didn't explain things well - when I said I had 2 antennas, I meant the one in the car (not working) and I actually have two spares, both of which work on a 12 volt bench test, but neither will shut off once they go up or down. The one installed on the car at time of purchase has a broken cable (actually think it is made of plastic). Other than not shutting off, both spare antennas work perfectly.

I will be calling my radio man later today for his input, but thought that possibly there was some type of time delay relay built into the radio, or maybe some contact setup within the antenna itself, but either way- seems logical that the antenna motor should stop running once in the up or down position.

As to the manuals, I have a wiring diagram and a radio manual both on order (eBay), so that might help and I have a good radio man. I also have many manuals on this car (owner's manual, Lincoln service manuals, chassis manual and others), but so far was unable to locate the fust panel. I guess I was looking for a simple panel that would be visible from below, not expecting the "spaghetti".

Now the best part - back in the 70s and early 80s, I owned a 58, 59, 60 & 61 Continental and other than the usual convertible top wiring headaches and occasional window switch issues, had no other wiring problems. All were convertibles except the '59.

I accumulated many spare parts and I still have extra window switches and even have an extra radio marked "OK", plus the two extra antennas. I recall that one of the Lincolns (probably the 1960) had a small fuse panel with a metal cover (about 5" or 6" square) and think it was mounted on the firewall under the hood). But do not recall any such panel on the '58, and for some unknown reason, never had reason to change even one fuse.

When I saw this car at auction, knew it had my name on it, as I still have many more extra parts (in addition to the above), plus many service manuals and what I thought was plenty of knowledge about the car. Had it been a convertible, I would have had no interest, but a hard-top seemed to be less of a challenge (electrically), so bought the car. i love 58-60 Lincolns but am aware of the many electrical issues, but truthfully never had any such problems, other than convertible top issues - always hoping that the top would always close when it started to rain!

So yesterday we brought it into our shop to check the radio and antenna and my mechanic asked me the location of the fuse panel. (I told him I would come back and show him the location and couldn't believe it, but no fuse panel!). Your pictures are great and I printed them in color and will take them to work this afternoon. I hope you didn't pull all of the wires down to take the pictures?

Fred

P.S. I knew about the fuel pump push rod issue (thanks). My car has an electric fuel pump nicely mounted on the radiator support, but is being changed to a rear location today, as electric fuel pumps do better pushing than pulling. The original fuel pump is still intact (for looks), but lately I have been adding electric fuel pumps to help with the Ethanol issue, as well as faster starting after the car sits for weeks or months. I got tired of having to remove air cleaners and manually priming the carb. * I will PM you this evening when I have more time and after taking a look under the dash this afternoon. Thanks again for the very informative information and photos.

[W_Higgins]

Yeah, only 1960 had the nice Power Box located on the engine side of the firewall:

The only real electrical problem I've run into on mine (aside from deterioration issues) is the starter solenoid being relocated to the Power Box. Where the contacts transition through the box by way of insulated stepped washers, they tend to short out. Otherwise, they are very reliable.

Though it doesn't apply here, dual antennas actually were an option. It is very rare. Only on '59 and '60 Limos, which have rear radios, is it standard.

I think the problem you're running into with your antennas is deterioration of the nylon cord. Sounds like it's intact enough to work, but not enough to know when it has found home so it will shut off. The motors usually always work great, it's the cord that fails. Your '58 is different because it does go up-and-down with activation of the radio. In '60 they changed the volume knob to a dual purpose push / pull knob. It may also be the antenna has a clutch that slips when it reaches the bottom and your radio isn't telling it to stop. It's been a long time since I took one apart, so I'm a little fuzzy on that.

Edited December 9, 2010 by W_Higgins (see edit history)

[Fred Zwicker]

Thanks for the feedback. This afternoon we removed the radio (lots of fun) and found the small fuse panel just above the radio and slightly to the right. Radio will be sent to the shop tomorrow for an overhaul and hope to have it back in service next week. I am sending in the radio, the power supply, the antenna and the foot switch, along with an extra radio, so should be able to get it running soon. As I remember my previous '58 Continental convertible (about 30 years ago), the radio worked quite nicely and I always enjoyed the convenient foot pedal control.

The antenna works just fine when activated - goes up with radio on and down when radio is shut off, but never stops running. I will have my radio man check it out, but if that doesn't work, can always go to a 3-way switch (off in center) and manually run the antenna up and down. I have an extra antenna and it works the same (keeps running). The antenna with the car will never work, as the cord had been removed.

Today we removed the Bendix electric fuel pump that can be seen at the upper left side of the photos and replaced it with a Carter electric pump near the gas tank, as electric fuel pumps push better than pull and also wanted to have a cleaner under hood appearance. When we removed the old fuel pump, found a lot of gunk, so plan to remove and clean the gas tank and use an additive to keep it clean. When finished we will have a new fuel line and fitler, a new electric fuel pump and a clean gas tank, so should be all set for awhile. Hopefully the Ethanol in today's fuels will not cause future problems.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for the help and advice.

Fred

Pictures of this Lincoln can be seen at www.tpcarcollection.com

[Roger Zimmermann]

I'm surprised to see that Lincolns still had a vacuum wiper motor in 1960...

[W_Higgins]

I'm surprised to see that Lincolns still had a vacuum wiper motor in 1960...

They got away from it shortly after that. I can't remember the specifics, but know that in '64, at least, they were hydraulic and I don't think there were anymore vacuum units after that point.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

They got away from it shortly after that. I can't remember the specifics, but know that in '64, at least, they were hydraulic and I don't think there were anymore vacuum units after that point.

They also got away from what was probably one of the more idiot ideas employed by anyone to provide vacuum for wipers. I may be mistaken but I think the '58-'60 maybe even '61 Ford cars with MEL block engines all had vacuum pump on the oil pump for one or more production years, so if your wiper vacuum failed the darn oil pump had to be replaced or you took the easy way out and replaced the wiper motor with a basically drop-in two speed electric conversion unit that was produced by General Electric. Have one of those on my '58 Mercury, works decently but had to do a reach around on the washer pump.

Today there probably isn't but a very few cars around with the the original arrangement of the vacuum pump on the oil pump. The pumps haven't been available for years. Meaning there is no likely way one of those cars remains 100% correct beneath the hood forever.

Jim

[W_Higgins]

You're partially correct. The purpose of the vacuum pump is to take over when manifold vacuum drops, as in when people complain about their wipers stalling under acceleration. When manifold vacuum drops, a check valve opens and the pump comes into play. If the pump fails, you just cap the port on the side of the block, and the line that runs to it, and run your wipers on manifold vacuum, only.

Now, they can potentially create a problem that has taken a lot of these cars out of service for no reason. If the check valve fails after a catastrophic pump failure, the engine will suck oil directly out of the crankcase and into intake air, causing your engine to smoke like crazy. A lot of people have actually rebuilt their engines or disposed of the car as a result.

For my current project I installed a NOS pump that I was fortunate to get with the car, though it was slightly different. The old pump had suffered catastrophic failure with the lower plate blown out, which I think is what sidelined this particular car:

[ply33]

They also got away from what was probably one of the more idiot ideas employed by anyone to provide vacuum for wipers. I may be mistaken but I think the '58-'60 maybe even '61 Ford cars with MEL block engines all had vacuum pump on the oil pump for one or more production years, so if your wiper vacuum failed the darn oil pump had to be replaced or you took the easy way out and replaced the wiper motor with a basically drop-in two speed electric conversion unit that was produced by General Electric. Have one of those on my '58 Mercury, works decently but had to do a reach around on the washer pump.

Today there probably isn't but a very few cars around with the the original arrangement of the vacuum pump on the oil pump. The pumps haven't been available for years. Meaning there is no likely way one of those cars remains 100% correct beneath the hood forever.

Jim

Interesting. I thought Chrysler was alone in having the insane idea of using the oil pump as a vacuum source. They used it on 1928 and 1929 Plymouths (perhaps other cars too) to supply vacuum for the fuel pump. I guess you could climb a long hill without worrying about fuel starvation but if something when wrong with the vacuum fuel pump you could lose oil pressure and/or have gasoline pulled directly into the oil.

[W_Higgins]

but if something when wrong with the vacuum fuel pump you could lose oil pressure and/or have gasoline pulled directly into the oil.

Can you explain this part a little better? On my car the vacuum pump is a separate unit attached to the bottom of the oil pump strictly because it's a convenient place to pick up a pump drive, but failure of one does not effect the other.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Cadillac had a vacuum pump too. Till 1953, it was under the fuel pump; from 1954 to 1958, it was under the oil pump, inside the ingine. There is a check valve preventing that the intake vacuum is sucking the oil from the engine. After an engine rebuild from my '56 Cad, this check valve went bad and the engine smoked like mad. I discovered the problem almost by accident (after removing the pistons).

From 1959 on, the wiper was electric.

[W_Higgins]

After an engine rebuild from my '56 Cad, this check valve went bad and the engine smoked like mad. I discovered the problem almost by accident (after removing the pistons).

Yep, that's exactly what I was talking about. I know a guy that re-ringed his '60 Lincoln two times before he figured it out.