Build Document for McLaughlin Plant in Canada

[Guest P.M.O.]

This Document shows Buick from 1908 to 1973 Cadillac1923 to1935 Chevrolet Car 1915 Oldsmobile from1920 to1969 and Pontiac 1926 to1973 . Trucks Chevrolet 1919 to 1973GMC 1923 to1973 and Pontiac truck 1940 1958 . Oakland LaSalle Marquette and Sampson the blank in production was for this plant to build War equipment because in 1939 our war started with germany.

[Guest P.M.O.]

This Document shows Buick from 1908 to 1973 Cadillac to Chevrolet Car 1915 Oldsmobile from to1969 and Pontiac 1926 to1973 . Trucks Chevrolet 1919 to 1973GMC 1923 to1973 and Pontiac truck 1940 1958 . Oakland La Salle Marquette and Sampson the blank in production was for this plant to build War equipment because in 1939 our war started with Germany.

I see this information is outside the box. I after reading My Years with General Motors by A P Sloan Jr he had no idea General Motors of Canada was building both Buick and Chevrolet . This would indicate GM started in Canada in 1908 by McLaughlin and Durant outside of GM? I ask any Historian to help me prove other wise. only after Durant was able to recover GM with his trading Chevrolet stocks for GM holding stock and making GM a car company in 1918? Was Sloan a total fool for not having known Durant was in venting history by owning Buick Motor Company ,having made a deal with McLaughlin for a 14 year Contract to build with Buick power trains in 1908 . Durant then started the General Motors Holding Company in 1908?Durant then not working for GM Holding in 1910 was to work with McLaughlin and start Building Chevrolet 1915, the contract with Durant and Buick for Motors was 7 years old when McLaughlin started Chevrolet. Durant had started Chevrolet in the USA in 1911 and sold Chevrolet stock at 5 to 1 to recover GM holding? Durant took back GM in 1918 turned GM into a great company after 1918 as written by A P Sloan page 191 of his book could he have done this without McLaughlin?

[Larry Schramm]

Yes

[Guest P.M.O.]

Yes

Not with out Durant McLaughlin and Dupont?

[Guest P.M.O.]

Yes

It is refreshing to see that you are a man of few words,lacking in knowledge that you wish to share or are just Quiet. The thing here would be for you to inform me of that wisdom. You see Durant only after getting his Buick Company and striking a deal with McLaughlin for 14 years of building with his motors did Durant return to Flint to make GM a Holding Company,after buying into Cadillac Oldsmobile getting his butt fired after wanting Ford. Durant then went on after 1910 to Chevrolet to start the Chevrolet ,crossed into Canada and in Toronto decided to talk with McLaughlin about building Chevrolet.Durant was at this time making money with his Buick Motors not Cars and the new Chevrolet in The USA but needed a Canadian plant .Durant sold his stocks to acquire GM holding and did after McLaughlin started building Chevrolet in 1915. Durant had enough GM stock in 1918 to take over GM. Please Larry elaborate on this if you would to correct me if I am Ignorant and going the wrong direction. I would like to go in the direction to where the truth lies all be it. Thanking you in advance for your help in this matter . John

[Larry Schramm]

John,

I have watched your posts for some time and the one common thread is that you seem to believe McLaughlin was the center of the GM success. Your right if that is what you believe. Being from Flint and having family that have worked for GM since 1915 when Billy Durant was running the show, I have a difference of opinion which is also fine. Almost all of you posts in each thread has the early McLaughlin production figures. Because? I will just take a pass on further discussion.

Regards

[Guest P.M.O.]

John,

I have watched your posts for some time and the one common thread is that you seem to believe McLaughlin was the center of the GM success. Your right if that is what you believe. Being from Flint and having family that have worked for GM since 1915 when Billy Durant was running the show, I have a difference of opinion which is also fine. Almost all of you posts in each thread has the early McLaughlin production figures. Because? I will just take a pass on further discussion.

Regards

Thank you Larry it is so nice to see that out there this Document has been read. Thanking you again for your understanding in my Thinking that Durant and McLaughlin did in fact start GM /one in Canada and the Other in the USA. I do know when I came across this Document many were interested and others scoffed. Cadillac thought only in the USA but it shows in Canada too. I worked in GM Canada from 1961 to my retirement and in my time saw millions of cars go out of our plant. I was part of the Buick Regal pilot group in 1988 and worked with engineering group in TEC Center. truck and bus flint and many other places in the USA. This would in no way make me an expert in my thinking but goes to credibility. I would like to banter this around too but can not find many that have much knowledge of GM Canada.

[West Peterson]

It's difficult to understand your paragraph, PMO, so I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. Maybe I'm a dumb old donkey like my wife keeps telling me.

However, my first questions are, "Where did the production figures for those early years come from? Was it a reliable source? Who compiled the information?"

It's difficult to make facts from second-hand information, which is what this document is.

[Guest P.M.O.]

It's difficult to understand your paragraph, PMO, so I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. Maybe I'm a dumb old donkey like my wife keeps telling me.

However, my first questions are, "Where did the production figures for those early years come from? Was it a reliable source? Who compiled the information?"

It's difficult to make facts from second-hand information, which is what this document is.

My Guess it is as Good as it Gets when compiled agents older information on build from Buick Chevrolet and many other books I have on the Industry. Then reading AP Sloan's book This plant never showed under GM in his beginning.Durant was a Friend of McLaughlin from Carrage days and helped McLaughlin out with a Contract for Buick Motors in 1908 as is in this information. Making this a good start. My Question West is if in fact this is true Who or where did the money go? Thinking Durant used it to build GM in that he now had a contract for 14 years as stated in Durant and McLaughlin history. Durant was so strong in his buying up everything after this he formed GM holding and drew in Cadillac Oldsmobile and many suppliers(correct me if I am wrong)or help me if I am right.Durant Got to the Doors of Ford with an offer of $8,000,000 with 2,000,000 and had his but kicked out of GM by the bankers in 1910. This ment he held the contract with McLaughlin on the Build of his cars? (was this outside of GM) as he owned Buick . Durant ,now following the information on the Document I submitted . went to Chevrolet and started it Chevrolet in 1911.This was in the State of New York and later looked at building in Canada in Toronto,he was in Toronto and talked with McLaughlin this is documented too ,he convinced McLaughlin to build Chevrolet in his plant with McLaughlin bodies as he had with the Buick. the cost was off set by Durant buying into McLaughlin ( how with what the money from Chevrolet or money from McLaughlin's build of the cars with Buick motors. This was not GM at this time ( correct me if I am wrong) Durant was known to wheel and deal as stated by AP Sloan. Durant was able to get Louis Chevrolet mad enough to sell his stocks to Durant after Durant told him he had patented his name for the Car. Durant started his build of Chevrolet in Canada in 1816 has it shows on this document but where is the money coming from is my Question. ( millions was invested buy the McLaughlin Company for Building the McLaughlin line. Chevrolet Money went to who (not GM ) Durant to get GM stocks to recover his folly as called by the New York post? correct me if I am wrong. West as an old fart who worked in CPC BOP TEC Warren and Jack McGettrick Design Engineer,people in Mansfield Terry A Treat Senior Manufacturing Engineer Prototype and Pilot Systems. Albert B Kober Development and Validation David D Dressig Senior Mfg Engineer Advanced Manufacturing most in Warren, Fisher Guide to Nancy Grimm Sr Project Engineer I could go on but it is not in me to publish anything I thought to be out side the Truth . From one old Donkey who over time has looked into how much history has been twisted. The fact that in some places Truck build in Canada was shipped to the war effort in 1939, Canada was at war with Germany at the time but the information like you say Who can know if the information on war is true when in the USA it started in 1942 and The USA never fought on the Atlantic it was left to Canada and England to see Even after 1942 that the supply lines got what was required to win that war .This was written by Ike but must be just Bull too. Thank you West it is nice that you too have interest in knowing. Please feel free to send me private information John

[West Peterson]

PMO

Please proofread your writing. You are not writing in complete sentences, your paragraphs run on, and you seem to switch directions with your thoughts midway through. It is impossible to follow what you are trying to say. If any others are like I am, they quit reading after trying to trudge through your second sentence.

I'm sure you have some important information, and a good question, but it's impossible to understand.

[Guest P.M.O.]

PMO

Please proofread your writing. You are not writing in complete sentences, your paragraphs run on, and you seem to switch directions with your thoughts midway through. It is impossible to follow what you are trying to say. If any others are like I am, they quit reading after trying to trudge through your second sentence.

I'm sure you have some important information, and a good question, but it's impossible to understand.

Sorry I will try to meet that Goal and was wondering if any one was reading ? Guess I was wrong. This must show nobody knows about GM Canada or is interested. Vertigo, Sorry must be an age thing.

[R W Burgess]

PMO,

I'm sure you have some important information, and a good question, but it's impossible to understand.

I'm having the same problem, Vertigo, reading through the sentences without punctuation is very hard to do. My head hurts.

PMO, I like others, do not understand what you are getting at???? I understand the statements you are making, but do not see a question. I'm sure others here are wondering the same thing. This thread probably needs to be moved to the General Forum. It has little to do with newsletters or webmasters.

Wayne

[West Peterson]

This must show nobody knows about GM Canada or is interested.

PMO

How did you come up with that conclusion?

You need to post an understandable question in the General Forum, not here in the Newsletter Forum, as Wayne said.

So far, all we see is a compilation of production figures done (I'm assuming) in 1973, followed by a paragraph that's impossible to follow, let alone to understand the first sentence.

The AACA Forum is a very, very active place, and members bend over backward, it seems, to help.

Keep your questions brief, as Vertigo tried to explain.

[Guest P.M.O.]

I'm having the same problem, Vertigo, reading through the sentences without punctuation is very hard to do. My head hurts.

PMO, I like others, do not understand what you are getting at???? I understand the statements you are making, but do not see a question. I'm sure others here are wondering the same thing. This thread probably needs to be moved to the General Forum. It has little to do with newsletters or webmasters.

Wayne

1. I found old build document with GM of Canada Limited on it.

2. Cadillac has never shown build outside of Canada.

3. I did inform Cadillac La Salle club and gave them it

4. Question ,Document dated 1908 GM of Canada Limited.

5. GM was started as Holding Company after this date ?

6. Durant is fired from GM 1910 after trying to buy Ford.

7. Durant starts Chevrolet 1911 in USA ,1916 in Canada.

8. Durant now owned Buick and Chevrolet ?

( is Document valid and if so Durant did more for GM than known with McLaughlin car Company, Building Chevrolet and cars that were called Buick's after 1942 . Thank you for your interest, Thank you in advance for your help in this matter. John

[Guest P.M.O.]

PMO

How did you come up with that conclusion?

You need to post an understandable question in the General Forum, not here in the Newsletter Forum, as Wayne said.

So far, all we see is a compilation of production figures done (I'm assuming) in 1973, followed by a paragraph that's impossible to follow, let alone to understand the first sentence.

The AACA Forum is a very, very active place, and members bend over backward, it seems, to help.

Keep your questions brief, as Vertigo tried to explain.

West thank you for a direction as this was never given. I have like Durant fired across every venue with no response even General Forum seems to have no interest in the Production Document . The fact I have never in my years found such a Document until now but it shows signs of General Motors format in framing.

[West Peterson]

Better. Now go to the AACA General Forum and post your question there. Include your question in the subject line.

Note: Your question(s) still seems to be more about statements, as opposed to questions.

Here's the link:

General Discussion - AACA Forums

[Guest P.M.O.]

Has anyone out there ,have a dispute with this document being real? This would be a start as when I started this in September I had no reply. Please read My 80 Years on Wheels by McLaughlin.

Edited January 20, 2011 by P.M.O.
My 80 Years on wheels by R.S. McLaughlin (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.

I have no idea if the document is real or not. It is clear that it appears to be a document that summarizes the data from other documents over many years. The question that it brings to me to ask is, where are the original source documents from which this data was compiled?

Where did you find this document? What background information does this source give about the original documents from which the data was derived? I too have been having difficulty following exactly what you are trying to ask.

[Guest P.M.O.]

I retired from GM Canada after 32 Years and worked with computers after 1994,I looked into history of R.S. McLaughlin and found him to be nothing in GM history. I found this document in a history on cars Web site in Alberta Canada but found it to be about the plant I worked in. I lived in Oshawa starting in 1947 My Father was in a Plant in Oshawa, Skinners (building bumpers for GM Ford and Chrysler. Population of Oshawa 34,000 at that time. I found in most places the numbers match other than GM has a book that GM Canada was after 1918. I now Question why GM when shutting down Saturn,over looked GM Canada ( This historic site now has me interested in why?

Durant I find was very sh rude in all of his dealings with stock of Buick, GM and Chevrolet in that he bought into McLaughlin with his Buick stock, and was on the brink of buying Ford when he lost his job in GM 1910.