Side mount cup

[Barney Eaton]

My 1939 has side mounts and they do not fit properly. It is caused mainly by the lack of a part. There is supposed to be a cup that fits into the large center hole of the wheel.... the threaded rod fits into a hole in the cup and a nut on the threaded rod pull the wheel tight against a stop.

My car has the threaded rod going through one of the lug nut holes that has been tourched out large enough for the rod. The angle is wrong and the nut does not tighten properly.

I have been searching for the proper part since purchasing the car. I came close this year at Ames but the cups were for large series cars (mine is a Century)

I also noticed both at Colorado Springs and Ames, that many cars with side mounts do not have the correct part and each owner has their idea of a solution.

Enter my idea for the solution. First I wanted it strong, so it would not bend, I also wanted it stable (most fixes use one lug hole) I sketched my idea and had a local shop take a look.... I got 10 for slightly more than they want for 2, so if you need this part for your side mount, let me know, I have some extras.

The picture shows a part as received from the shop... I am going to sand blast it and paint them satin black. I may also weld the nut to the back side so that is one less part to loose.

Let's hear your comments

[Thriller]

Barney,

It is quite possible that I'm not quite getting this configuration. Does the threaded rod come straight out from the side of the car perpendicular to the wheel? If yes, then a flat plate that covered four wheel holes with a hole in the middle for the threaded rod would be stronger than a piece with a bend.

Based on the photo, I think it must be that I don't quite get it...does the threaded rod come into play on an angle?

I'd have to take a look, but this seems quite different than on the '29.

[Barney Eaton]

Attached are a couple of pictures that will help.

Picture of the factory "cup" I think one fits 40-60 series, the other large cars

Phantom picture of the side mount assembly.... the threaded rod is on roughly a 45 degree angle.

[Thriller]

Thanks Barney. That makes a lot of sense. Even though it wouldn't be perfect, I'd consider taking that photo, along with dimensions of wheel hole and threaded rod to see how close a metal fab shop could come to that. That would cost considerably more than the bracket you have, but a good job done could possibly almost pass for correct.

[Barney Eaton]

Derek.....sort of already been there. The first problem the shops notice is the diameter needed for going inside the wheel hole is not something they can make be slicing off a piece of pipe. They could roll it but the cost starts going up.

My fix is out of flustration. I am looking for tubing/pipe of a size that will work, I carry a template in my tool kit for trying sizes at the salvage yard.... the best suggestion is find a drive shaft of the proper size........ when I do, I can may lots of the cups.

[Grandpa]

Barney,

If you have a good sample part, you should consider casting them in bronze. Use pattern makers sheet wax (available in various thickness) glued to the original part to increase the wall thickness. Clay can be used to radius any corners. You will have to fill the hole in the sample part with Bondo. I have done this process many times to make copies of missing vintage auto parts. I can recommend a SoCal foundry if you don't have one in your area. Also, I have a lifetime supply of sheet wax if you need some sheets.

Grandpa

[Guest ewing]

Barney, I have the same problem as you.

I found 2 of these centre cups in a junk yard and they are for a centre wheel opening that is larger than the wheels on my 38 special.

So my question is, is your picture upside down? in that the angled part with the opening for the rod ( at the 45 degree angle) would have the opening to allow the rod to pass trhu angling up? and not angling down as in your picture.

I hope I am not confusing you ....

Edited September 8, 2010 by ewing (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

John... if you are talking about the black wheel with my part attached, it is all in your preception of viewing the picture. The wheel can be turned 180 degrees and the angle changes. I shot the picture the way it mounts in the car. the bottom of the picture is down and the angle works.

[Guest ewing]

ok, yes I see it! My eyes were playing tricks on me.

Thats a great idea. Thanks.

My only concern is the flip down part of the angle rod assembly that fits snug against the inside face of the wheel when pulled down. Mine is very tight against the wheel and not sure if I'd have room for the extra plate thickness... hmmmm. But I like the idea to secure the wheel in tightly.

Part of the tight fit may be that my tires are too large in width and I don't have much side to side wiggle room.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

There's a guy who makes the sidemount hardware, including the cup. I'm at work right now, but I'll try and dig up the guy's contact info. We got some made for the 38.

Cheers

Grant

[Guest WEB 38]

Barney Do you know if the cadillac ones are the same ? I May have access to a couple from a 39 cadillac model 60. Bill WEB 38

[Guest ewing]

being Gm cars with a lot of shared body parts, my guess is they are the same part. The issue will be the cup diameter and will it be the right diameter to fit inside the swheel centre hole.

I have a 38 Canadian built BUick and my wheels are 16 inch with 6 bolts per wheel. Not sure what the US buick wheels are like.

[Barney Eaton]

I had time to mount one of the new brackets on one side mount this weekend. Much more solid mount than the way mine were mounted. I have the dimension for the hole in the center of the wheel, will try and post it tomorrow.

I will also be taking the side mount back off as I did not paint the new bracket before mounting.... just a trial. I may try a few variations of bolts etc.

[50jetback]

There's a guy who makes the sidemount hardware, including the cup. I'm at work right now, but I'll try and dig up the guy's contact info. We got some made for the 38.

Cheers

Grant

Did you find those details Grant?

I am in need of a couple for my 1936 Century.

[50jetback]

I found 2 of these centre cups in a junk yard and they are for a centre wheel opening that is larger than the wheels on my 38 special.

...[/quote]

John - Do you still have the larger centre cups? and what size are they?

I am in need of 2 for my 36 Century - the wheels are 15" and the centres are larger than the 16" Series 40 wheels.

My car came with 2 X 16" Series 40 spares ( 15" 1936 Century wheels are scarce down here ) and I didn't realise the centres were different until I tried to put one on.

I've managed to get two replacement rims ( correct 15" ) but haven't managed to locate the right centre cups.

So if the dimensions of the two you have ( or may still have!! ) are just a little larger than the Series 40 ones I would be interested in purchasing them if you wished to sell.

[50jetback]

Just measured the hole in my wheels - 1936 Century and 1934 and later Series 40.

The centre hole of the Series 40 wheels are 3 1/2" diameter while the 36 Century is 3 7/8" diameter.

The Master Parts book lists these parts ( side mount cup ) as PLATE AND RETAINER, Wheel carrier lock - Group N0. 7.674

Part number 1315452 is listed to fit 1936 - 40 (Special )and 1937-38-39-40 - 40 ( Special ) and 60 ( Century ) fenderwell jobs

Part number 1292688 is listed to fit 1936 - 60 ( Century ) and 80 ( Roadmaster ) and 1937-38-39-40 - 80 ( Roadmaster )- 90 ( Limited ) fenderwell jobs.

[Barney Eaton]

This discussion may have just saved me some $$.

First I checked the hub diameter on my 1939 Century and they measure 3 1/2 ( it looks like it may be slightly under 3 1/2 but I will check that later with the wheel off the car.

Next I checked the wheels/rims mounted in the side mount location. These were butchered by someone... the threaded hold down rod goes through a greatly enlarged lug hole, this is one reason my side mounts did not pull down properly. The rims for the side mounts only have a 3 in center hole (from a Chevy, Pontiac?) I am now glad I did not find expensive original cups, they would not fit until I changed the side mount rims.

I rechecked the lug spacing and they are the same as the Buick (5" bolt circle) so luckly the adaptors I made did fit the (wrong) rims in the side mount location.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

I found out who makes Buick sidemount hardware. Well, I got the memory working! Custom Carriage. I found the invoice, but I'm 7 floors up (enjoying earthquake atftershocks!) and it's in the trunk of the 38 downstairs.

Maybe something in an old Bugle?

Cheers

Gr:)ant

[Guest outlaw car man]

Barney,

Not sure if this is the cup you are referring to, but this is the sidemount on my 33-90.

The cup lines up with the threaded post coming off the side bracket, then a lug bolt screws on to that, then the lock.

[Barney Eaton]

outlaw car man...... no, the earlier cars (probably '35 and earlier, per the part number list above) used a much different cup. The threaded stud/post on the earlier cars go through the wheel/cup at 90 degrees. I have an early cup that I would like to sell. Some well thinking Buick buddies found it at the Oklahoma swap meet, not knowing it was for earlier cars.

[Barney Eaton]

Attached is a photo with dimensions for the "early" side mount cup that I cannot use and thus would be surplus and is for sale. I have $45 in it......will sell for that plus shipping.

Note there is a 35 on the side, that is apparantly the year it came from.

[50jetback]

For anyone interested these could save a lot of problems.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270699879679&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Smaller diameter than my Century ones, PROBABLY fit a Special.