Just how far do you go

[Guest Ctskip]

My Father-in-law and I have begun on a journey into the unknown for both of us.

I mentioned building a Hot Rod or something. He finds a 1940 Lincoln Zephyr. Not exactly what I was talking about, but then again how do you argue with your FIL? You don't, at least I don't. He's always right. ...So far..

Any way we started tearing into this Zephyr. Taking pictures, organizing and finding parts, The floor is rotted and a replacement was delivered. Now we took the grill out and the grill is in two pieces. Right side and left side. Each side has 12 tiny screws holding the grill in place. We had to destroy two of the screws to get the grill out. My FIL is besides himself. He won't rest till they are drilled out (impossible) and tapped and a replacement screw is found. This is so minor at this stage, yet he won't rest till the hole is ready for a new screw. I mean there are ten thousand other things that need to be done still.

I asked him, what are we expecting out of this car? Trailer to judged shows? drive it around and enjoy it? or just enter it in non judged shows and drive it. I said two little screws won't matter because they can't be seen and it's really no big deal. We are doing this for fun. I thought the roof was going into orbit. He is a perfectionist. . I'm just the opposite. If it works and looks good and holds the way it was designed to. Go with it. I was wondering how others here felt about the restoration of their vehicles. Is it near perfect? Or does it look good and are you proud of it now that it's done? We are doing all the work on this vehicle and we want it to work the way it was intended to work. No prize winner just good looking ride. This vehicle is in need of a total restoration. wires,glass,paint, interior and new motor, rubber, brakes gas tank, you name it it needs inspection and probably replacement. Two tiny little screws. I'm shaking my head in wonderment.

Ctskip

[Guest Adam4t]

It depends on how important the project is. I say, if you have the time and the supplies, why not make it exactly how it came out of the factory? If you're going to do something, do it right so it's not something to worry about later.

I mean, of course in some cases you don't have everything you need, or can find everything you need, so you work around it. But if you have what you're looking for, why not? If he wants to be a perfectionist, and has the money to do so, why not let him? Not to argue with you, of course, but I say if he wants to do it, let him. From how the car looks, since it needs everything and then some, why not give it EVERYTHING? Including those two little screws you'll never see. In my opinion, if I can, I will do everything it takes. Of course there are plenty who disagree, but that's just my thought.

[Guest Ctskip]

At this stage , worrying about two broken screws that hold a grill in is obsessing on something that can be done next to the last thing you do to the car. Why not focus on the rusty ashtray? or worry about the gas cap when it needs a new tank? There are ten thousand other things that need to be done in a particular order. The vehicle needs to be stripped and the floor needs to be replaced then blasted and body work done, then painted, put back on all fours and then he can obsess on the two tiny little screws that can't be seen when the grill gets reinstalled after it comes back from being chromed. Then worry about the two screws.

Ctskip

[Guest chequenman]

At this stage , worrying about two broken screws that hold a grill in is obsessing on something that can be done next to the last thing you do to the car. Why not focus on the rusty ashtray? or worry about the gas cap when it needs a new tank? There are ten thousand other things that need to be done in a particular order. The vehicle needs to be stripped and the floor needs to be replaced then blasted and body work done, then painted, put back on all fours and then he can obsess on the two tiny little screws that can't be seen when the grill gets reinstalled after it comes back from being chromed. Then worry about the two screws.

Ctskip

You are letting your (FIL) get to you. Let him get the screws drilled out and replaced while you both decide on something "you" can be doing when he's drilling.

Working together doesn't mean you both have to be doing the same thing with each other while you both progress on this project at the same time.

When he's doing his drilling you could be taking a door off, or removing the Gauges from the Dash and taking Pictures before you go too far with a Digital Camera, for back up and then when the Gauges are removed Plastic bag them and Label them for starters.

Work together on the Project and stop complaining, the both of you will learn from each other as you progress!!!

[F&J]

The project sounds doomed because of the opposite views on how to redo the car. I can't see a fun project at this point. That is a shame. It's supposed to be a hobby. If you are arguing about the FIRST part removed, that is not good.

I can see his way of doing things though...if you repair pieces "when" they are first removed, then you will see a big plus during the reassembly. If you do it the other way, you have a huge pile of parts needing work and that may seem harder to deal with.

Sit down with him and get back on track...some sort of compromise maybe.

One thing to keep in mind is that these older cars are dwindling in popularity, and it honestly does not matter anymore if everything is perfect. What I mean is like a very elderly collector keeps telling me about a part not being correct: " Who is to know that it is wrong?, and honestly,who even really cares?" Sure, a pricey, top end model deserves the best efforts, but most of us don't have cars like that.

I would rather see a older car like that get "finished and drivable again", rather than see another project abandoned because perfection could not be obtained.

[Guest Ctskip]

I agree that the original intent was fun and a bonding (not that we need it, mind you), but something to do . I have seen his tractors get taken apart and not put back together. Lack of something. I gave him a small tractor . Second gear was shot. All the rest worked fine. Now it's in pieces (4 yrs) waiting for the gear to magically insert itself in the xmsn. It ain't gonna happen. Fun is what its all about. We are having fun and doing what every guy needs to do, destruct and destroy. Hopefully we'll finish this in this decade. Maybe not ever?? I can only work (play) with it when I'm there, which now seems to be further and further apart. I do make special trips down just to work on the car. It is fun and we are enjoying it. He has already got the screws out and tapped with new screws waiting. I don't have a problem at all with whatever he chooses to do. I asked for the only workbench be cleared off so we can work standing instead of on the floor. His bench is piled high with nothing really. Garbage comprises 90% of it. We need it for the xmsn, so we can work on it. I was just wondering how far does one go to achieve what ever it is they want to achieve. Can perfection ever be achieved and do you drive your blood pressure up to achieve perfection for something that will never be perfect. Just how far do you go?

Ctskip

[Guest Adam4t]

Oh, you're talking about in general and our vehicles. I try to never get my blood pressure up for anything, especially with cars and trucks. Anything can be "perfect" in one way or another, but for me, trying to make something that I'm not going to be able to do just makes me lose my patience, and as soon as my blood starts boiling I have to go. Sounds stupid for a 14 year old but it happens a little to often for my liking. I personally like to do everything at once because just from experience I get overwhelmed when I don't do everything there is to do with one thing before I go onto the next I forget where I started.

[Guest palosfv3]

Your post reminds me of a dear old friend and partner in crime. We used to restore / put cars back together on almost daily basis and regularly had these types of issues and discussions. He use to drive me crazy and I from time to time would drive him crazy . He would only replace what was needed. If a radiator hose broke he would replace the hose. I would always remind him that the rest of the hoses were going to fail shortly, why not just change them all and bypass the grief of being broke down again and doing the double work. The stories are plentiful . We use to argue sometimes quite heatedly . So much so we scared a visiting friend right out of the garage one day when I threatened to drop the car on him while he was under it. ( It was in good fun and not malicious and we both understood it, unfortunately Joe wasnt aware of this). I sure do miss him since he passed many years ago.

We eventually worked out a good working relationship . We both came around a little to each others way of doing things. I did the stuff that was detail oriented and critical and he did the work I hated to do . It worked great and the relationship we develped was closer than that of close brothers. I hope you can find this relationship with your FIL.

Larry

[Larry Schramm]

Everyone has their style to work on vehicles. My style is not to become anal and sweat the small stuff like a broken screw. I also had a good friend who I would work with and the example of us was if we were making lead soldiers I would make and spray paint the soldiers while my friend was happy painting the pupils on the eye balls and other minute details. We worked well together even though for each of us we were challenged on the others view of what was important on the priority list.

[keiser31]

Ctskip...If I were you, I would scroll on down to the Lincoln Zephyr posts and try to find some of the correct screws. I would then get the smallest drill bit I could find and slowly drill out those broken screws. Father-in-law will be very happy. Continue enjoying the experience of the restoration/upgrade.

[Guest Ctskip]

This car is the first real yours and mine project we attempted. Most other projects have all been his. I can work with just about anyone. There have been a few however, that I've had to ask leave.

As for doing the right thing at the right time, the right way. That's the bump in the road. At least for me it is. There are many more important things that need to be done before we go out and look for stainless grade 8 screws. Which by the way he has already drilled removed and tapped for the new screws. I have no problem at all with doing things correctly, it just how far does one go to achieve perfection when perfection is not called for at that time? I know different strokes.... especially when there are way more important items to address. This project is for fun and thats what it's all about. The satisfaction in accomplishing something, anything. For my FIL, it's drilling and tapping a tiny screw that doesn't matter on the grand scale. He looks at the little accomplishments and I look at the overall task at hand. We still are accomplishing our task. Having something to do and feel good doing it. Thats the goal. Be it a car or a dog house. We are doing something together and having fun doing it.

The road trip is set to get the motor.

Ctskip

[Guest Adam4t]

I suppose it's those small tasks that make you want to do more?

[Guest mystarcollectorcar.com]

That kind of arrangement - detail guy and big picture guy could work.

Or it could crash and burn. I did a project 59 Plymouth where I spent 2 full days putting the front grill and bumper on and off until it was right.

I'm at the low end of the scale detail wise, but I knew that even though those pieces were technically on the car-they weren't put together correctly.

Until my last try.

Some other guys have mentioned compromise on this project so my advice is to play to the strengths of the partners-in other words,combine your big picture ,finish the project philosophy with his eye for detail.