1925 6-72 Phaeton

[Guest 25peerless72]

Well it is long overdue but I thought I would post some more pictures of my Peerless for you guys to check out some more. It has been months since i have posted anything, just been watching and reading every now and then. Anyway I know my friend Jeff B. would like to see some. Since it has been so long i'll post a bit more on the history again.

We are the 4th owners of the car, which was probaly manufactured at the end of 24 but titled as a 25. It is according to Jeff the only 133in 7 pass. Phaeton left, which i was very surprised to find out.

We purchased it from my great uncle who had it for about 20-25years before we got it about 4 years ago. All that time it has just been sitting up on stands. He drove it when he first got it but since then it has just been quite. The engine is not frozen and everything is there so it would probably run if we tinkered on it for a day, i just didn't want to go messing around with the car untill i knew the right way to do things so nothing would get damaged. Now i am just at a place where i am not around the car enough at the moment to work on it.

As you can tell from the pictures it is pretty much all original and very compleat. I have only found two thing that will need to be returned to original. 1. the vacuum fuel pump was removed at some time and replaced by an electric unit. and 2. the Peerless Emblem on the radiator does not appear to be correct. It think it should be bigger and more of a flowing script.

Do any of you know if the Vacuum pump was an off the shelf unit that may be the same in other cars of the same vintage, or where i could find one?

Okay Here is what it is all about. The pictures. the whole album is here All pictures

this is the Car when it was outside so you can get a better idea of how it looks from a distance

This is the passenger area with the folding jump seats up. There is carpeting on the floor in the rear but non in the drivers area up front. This is because it would have been chauffeur driven so only the back was nicer.

A pic of just the back seat with the top folded and covered.

The drivers area, As you can see the wind wing is just hanging there, I didn't take the time before it took the picture to fully mount it so it looks kinda funny. I am not sure these wind wings came from the factory. They have not aged the same as the rest of the car. They are made from a lesser quality pot metal and show more age damage than the rest of the trim metal.

The slip covers for the jump seats

One of my favorite features is the extending wind screen for the rear seat passangers. It extends from just behind the front seats almost all the way back. This appears to be installed at the Peerless factory but was supplied by a different manufacture. I have a catalogue that came with the car that shows all the product line of this company, I don't remember the companies name at the moment but they specialized in accessories such as this.

As an interesting side note. The key for the ignition is the same for the key on the locked spare tire. I noticed that they were Yale locks and since that was a name i recognized we took our key for the car over to our local Ace Hardware and our good friend there had a bunch of matching blanks. It was the same blank that Yale used in their padlocks. He cut us a couple of duplicates on the spot. I was blown away that we could get a duplicate key so easily. I don't expect anything else with the restoration to go that smoothly. but it is great when it does.

The wonderful big straight six

[Guest 25peerless72]

The front of the car. We have the big radiator cap/thermometor/eagle wings stored in the office for safe keeping. sorry i don't have a pic right now

cool leather wrapped springs

Tucked under the front seat is a bunch of treasures

The hand crank, an extra distributor, spare axels, and a bunch of other stuff i don't remember at the moment. Also under the rear seat is two sets of all the side curtins to close the car in from the weather. Sorry don't have any pictures at the moment.

Anyway hope you had fun looking. I had a great time writing about it.

Cheers

Devon

[Guest BJM]

Devon,

Rest assured you have a one of a kind vehicle. Correctly restored, this is a $100,000 + investment when presented at a suitable auction such as Amelia Island.

As you know, Jeff is keeping an accurate count on known remaining Peerless cars and we have not located another 1925 Collins 133 inch wheelbase car. You likely have the only one.

Jeff located a 1925 Peerless 6 touring on the shorter wheelbase in southern California and there is a full-on project same car in Montana but no verified 7 passenger 133 inch wheelbase car.

This was custom ordered I suspect. Peerless by 1925 was predominantly a closed car manufacturer in the higher wheelbase models. I think Jeff told me they were still building a lot of open cars, but mostly as line cars not the ones meant for (even) richer folks.

So your car was likely custom ordered and specified to have some wing device fro rear passengers. These would be considered 'factory' as I believe they would have been mounted by factory workers to make sure of fit and durability.

Question: Do these "fold up" to be behind the drivers seating?

Thanks again for sharing and do not be a stranger with your plans. I had wondered on progress of getting the car and discovering it.

[jeff_a]

Devon,

Thanks for writing us with more information about your 1925 Peerless. It's really great to see one with the details preserved -- after having seen a similar Phaeton that's sat outside for 50 years.

Some details on the '25 Peerless in Montana that are gone or nearly gone are the leather door pockets, the front floorboards, the way the upholstery wraps all the way around the rear compartment, and the wood trim that goes all the way around the body like a gunwale on a boat. In those photos of the Montana car, the steering wheel spokes are aluminum. Yours look like wood. Could they be aluminum, but "woodgrained" to look like wood? As you know, woodgraining was really popular in the 20's. I once saw a car whose dashboard was made out of a walnut 1 x 10, then covered in sheet metal and woodgrained to look like walnut.

Great detail shots of the extendable rear windshield; something which I had never heard of before. Also good pics of the jump seats. Did you know Peerless had a patent on those ( as well as the bevel gear differential, the 4-speed transmission, universal joints, and even some spark plug patents )?

My reading of the AUG/75 article in <span style="text-decoration: underline">Cars & Parts </span>is that you have a 1925 car, built in 1925. Referring to the previous paragraph, I think it would be reasonable to introduce your car at it's first show as a "1925 Peerless 6-72, 7-Passenger, Dual Windshield Touring Phaeton". In this article by Menno Duerksen ( a three-part story carried in the JUN/JUL/AUG issues ) he says, after mentioning that from November, 1924 on, the 6-70 cars were 1925 Model Year:

"By April, 1925, however, the car was called the Model 6-72, with body styling changed to include an integral sun visor, creased radiator shell and hood plus nickeled radiator shell."

I could be wrong, of course. Richard Lichtfeld, the Peerless Club President, did caution me that these articles have some errors in them. Duerksen, in this instance, is quoting the trade publication <span style="text-decoration: underline">The National Red Book</span>. Then there's the added dubiousness of someone who <span style="font-style: italic">doesn't</span> own a Peerless trying to correct someone who does own one! You would have information about the car that I don't have. Every week I learn something new about Peerless.

One thing I learned, which no one else seems to have ever commented on, is something regarding engine size. Did you know that in 1925 Packard, Peerless and Pierce-Arrow all made a 288.6 cubic inch straight six? There's someone in my neighborhood who has a 20's Packard "Single Six" engine for sale and it is <span style="text-decoration: underline">very </span>similar in appearance to your engine.

I don't know too much about vacuum tanks. You could look at those pictures of the Montana car on that Photobucket site again or contact the owner of the 1927 6-72 in Belgium or the 1926 6-72 in Indiana {PeerlessBelgium and scot63 on the AACA Forum}. Most of the Vacuum tanks for 20's Peerlesses I've seen or seen photos of are a cylinder about the size of a Quaker Oats container. The Peerless Instruction Book you have shows something similar and may show a brand name. Once I saw a picture of a Peerless with a vacuum tank "D"-shaped in cross-section. I mention this because I saw a photo of another make of car with a nearly identical unit. I think it may have been a 1925<span style="color: #990000">*</span> Packard Single Six ( dual windshield, single cowl phaeton, bright yellow, ex Al Capone <span style="color: #CC9933">**</span>) listed for sale a couple of years ago.

Cool to hear about the new ignition and spare tire keys being a cinch to copy. Have you read in your Instruction Book about the transmission lock being a Briggs & Stratton unit?

All for now. ----Jeff

<span style="color: #FF0000">*</span>correction: The Packard with this vacuum tank was a 1928 Mod. 4-36. The Peerless with this "D"-shaped tank was a 1919 chassis for sale in 2006.

<span style="color: #CC9933">**</span> Old Al wasn't exactly a wallflower when it came to cars. I found my notes about Al Capone's '25 Packard: it was a Mod. 3-26 5-Pass. Phaeton with a 289 cu. in. Single Six with 60 h.p. I found the photos on: www.miles-pocketwatches.com/1925Packard .

[Guest BJM]

Jeff and Devon,

With your added comments and the idea that Devon's car is sooo original, I would ask that particular attention be paid to photographing every part and taking measurements of the car, noting specific anomalies as Jeff has caught.

You have seen it stated a million times: "It's only original once" and Jeff knows I have seen 2 very original low mileage late teens' early 20's Peerless cars (the Quam cars) and once restored - although visually probably superior, the patina and parts are lost for ever.

However, even old masters' paintings are restored and based on what I am seeing, I think this one should be restored, not preserved.

Nonetheless, for those possibly restoring cars in the future - a TON of photos should be taken. With my wife's digital camera, a card can hold 400 or so, and can be stored and passed out on disc to anyone. It might seem tedious, but you have already taken some good photos.

I know the 25 Peerless 6 in Montana could NEVER be properly restored without a lot of documentation and photos of your car. As such, we would have relied on conjecture and brochures which would not supply adequate detail.

WOW. Your car is awesome and it's like a Holy Grail for us Peerless fanatics.

[PeerlessBelgium]

Hello Devon,

As far as I can see on your pictures, this is the same motor as in our 1927 6-72 Peerless 5 pass.

May be you could put on the post pictures of the other side of the motor ?

I have still the vacuum pump on our car. I will try to find pictures.

Philippe

[Guest 25peerless72]

Hi guys,

Several of you have mentioned or asked about the extending rear windshield. Yes it does fold up behind the rear seats. As has been mentioned it was not made by Peerless but by another company, However I am quite sure that it was installed by Peerless at the factory. It is seamlessly integrated into the rear of the front seat. Very sturdy, and all the original leather upholstery wraps around very nicely. Like i said it really looks original. I would never have thought it was not made by Peerless had it not been for the brochure that came with the car from this other company. I wish I could remember the name of the company but the brochure is out in CA still.

As for my plans. Yes at some point it will be restored. If the hood had not been repainted at some point in the past it would be a much better candidate for historical preservation. Oh well i guess i prefer the restored look anyway. It will probably be a few year before anything happens with the car though. I live out here in TN and the car is at my folks in CA and until i am truly ready to tackle the project correctly it is best that it stay in the perfect dry climate for now. At the moment we just want to make sure that the car does not deteriorate in any way and preserve it. And where it is now is perfect for that.

Yes i will really document the car before we do any work on it. Many many photos, measurements, sketches, etc. My plan has always been to just ensure that it would go back together perfectly original, just restored, but as you have mentioned it can also be a valuable resource to other Peerlesses that are around, like the one in MT.

PeerlessBelgium here is a pic of the pass. side of the engine.

Also here is a pic of the front with the radiator cap/wings

One question Philippe Do you have a high quality pic of your fuel vacuum tank as well as your Peerless emblem on the radiator? Also what are the dimensions of the Peerless emblem?

Have a great day everybody.

Devon

Oh yes there are more pics here more pictures

[Richard Lichtfel]

April 30, 1925

The Refined Peerless Six, Model 72, makes its debut this week--greatly beautified car resembling the Equiposed Eight in outward appearance, and without a doubt the finest six-cylinder automobile on the market at it's price, not only in beauty, but in proved performance.

The motor and chassis are of the same general specifications

as the Model 70. The Phaetons are equipped with Peerless permanent tops and snug-fitting door-opening curtains and are upholstered in black, long grain leather.

Price schedule for Model 72

126 inch wb 5 pass. Phaeton $1895

126 inch wb 5 pass. Coupe $2495

126 inch wb 5 pass. Sedan $2565

133 inch wb 7 pass. Phaeton $1995

133 inch wb 2-4 pass. roadster $2285

133 inch wb 7 pass. sedan $2765

133 inch wb 7 pass. Limo $2925

There is nothing in any of the information I have on Peerless in ads or manuals that show the back seat windshield which is a great idea and I am surprised that they didn't advertise it if it was an option. I wish I had one in my Peerless. The manual shows a small round Stewart-Warner vacuum tank mounted on the right side firewall. This should be available, I have seen someone advertising vacuum tanks and repairs in Hemmings.

Let me know if there is any other information you need for the Peerless Model 72.

RHL

[Guest 25peerless72]

The Green Dragon, Thanks for that info on the vacuum tank. It is great to know that it was not a Peerless only item and may be available. I have seen pictures of what it should look like on other Peerlesses. I will keep my eyes open and see if i can find one.

On another note Jeff had asked if the steering wheel was all wood or metal and then wood grained. Yes it is all wood. I have an extra steering wheel that was in pretty rough shape that i just recently restored and now have in my living room on the wall. I will take some pictures and post them in a bit. Right now i don't have any pictures of it since i have finished it.

Cheers Devon

[Guest Scot63]

Devon,

I just measured the vacuum tank on my 1926 6-72 and it is 4 1/2" in diameter and 10 1/2" tall. The tank has Stewart written in script on the top. Also, the radiator cap is different than yours. It is an eagles head. My daughter is on a trip with my camera this week. When she returns I'll snap some pictures and send them to you.

Scot O

(My radiator cap is the same as the one on Philippe Mordant's 6-72. There are pictures on the forum.)

[jeff_a]

Devon,

I went back and looked at the picture you sent me of the other steering wheel and saw that it's wood, too. I guess we've established that there are a few differences between these two Peerless Phaetons. As I said in a letter to Bryan -- I think I'm going to start calling the other one a '24. Looking at Philippe's thread about how to identify your Peerless, it looks like the '24 is No. 411 out of 2,786 6-70's built, and yours is No. 907 out of 5,565 6-72's built. They're slightly different animals.

That being said, I would very much like to go to a car show someday in which that '24 Phaeton, your '25 Phaeton, and Scot's '26 Sedan were all exhibited. Might go a long ways toward showcasing the Model 6-72's as the high-grade cars they are.

[jeff_a]

Green Dragon,

Thanks for posting the 1925 announcement of the new Model 6-72. It goes along with what the <span style="text-decoration: underline">National Red Book </span>and Menno Duerksen said about the 6-70 changing to a 6-72 in April, '25. Before I read about this, I had wondered why some Peerless Six's from that time had the new radiator shells and hoods and some had the earlier ones.

25Peerless72,

I found a nice 3-page description of how 1919-era vacuum tanks work and sent it to you yesterday. It was helpful for me to read about the technology. Also sent a great picture of a baseball player arriving in Pittsburgh in a Peerless Phaeton for a World Series game. I said that the photo was taken in 1927. My mistake -- it was taken on Oct. 8th, 1925.

[jeff_a]

Bryan and Devon,

I just went over to look at the Peerless 6 in Montana yesterday afternoon and discovered a small patch of original paint, and also a die-cast emblem denoting the bodymaker.

The paint was Blue and was visible on the cowl in a spot shielded by the hood & the hood lacing. The body was made by Pullman. Best known for building luxurious railroad cars, Pullman only made auto bodies from 1919-1925. The emblem was on the r.s. of the cowl a few inches above the rocker panel [only an inch long]. Perhaps Devon's Peerless has one(?). A Packard with an all-steel Pullman body was exhibited at the 1924 Chicago Auto Salon.

P.S.: From the descriptions I've read on coachbuilt.com, it looked like the only car companies associated with Pullman were Willys-Knight and Packard [some prototype bodies built]; Peerless [unknown # of bodies built]; and Moon [about 10,000 built]. I saw a Packard for sale on e-bay yesterday (7/3/09) that has a Pullman body. The owner of this 1921 Phaeton said it was one of about 1,000 early-production Single Six cars with aluminum Pullman bodies as opposed to later steel bodies by someone else. Auction was to end about 7/12. This car has a distinctive instrument panel, Windemere windwings for the rear passengers, painted radiator shell, and little in the way of nickel trim (compared to later Single Sixes). The wood trim around the cockpit coaming, or trailing edge of the cowl, is done almost identically to 25peerless72's car.

----Jeff

Edited October 13, 2010 by jeff_a
new info (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Here is a poor photo of a radiator emblem that matches the radiator cap that is on your car.

[jeff_a]

Dave,

There is a discussion about this Peerless and possible HPOF status a bunch of us had on the "Peerless CCCA list" thread a few months ago. I agree with you that it is an amazing auto. It's the only known long-wheelbase Model 6-72 Peerless Touring Phaeton in the world.

I saw some color photos of the '27 Boat Tail Roadster in the museum in New Mexico. Outstanding car {I'm told that it's also a 6-72}. What type of 1927 Peerless did you use to have?

[Guest Orphanauto]

wow, that's a really cool Peerless, thanks for sharing the photos, I hope to see it someday.

[Guest BJM]

Is the Pullman body on the 1924 Peerless in Montana aluminum or steel?

[jeff_a]

Bryan,

As far as I know, the whole body is steel.

Dave,

Thanks for telling me about the '27 Peerless you used to have. For some reason, '27 and '29 Peerlesses have survived in the greatest numbers.

Edited July 10, 2009 by jeff_a (see edit history)