insurance question

[Guest ekvh]

I was backed into a week and half ago. A little damage to the bumper and absorber, but also a cracked windshield. I had the adjuster look at it and he said a previous stone chip caused it to crack therefore it was existing damage and not their responsibility. The crack is not connected to the stone chip and starts from the nearest point of impact into the center of the windshield. They also said since my Reatta is a daily driver it was only worth $1000. They are offering me less than that and telling me it's a good deal because it keeps it from being a salvage title.

I am fairly sure that the windshield is there responsibility since the stone chip was there and a stone chip is allowed up to a certain size, but a cracked windshield is against the law. The crack was not there until after the collision.

They also said since I drive it regularly it is not considered collector status.

Any help and advice is appreciated.

[padgett]

It is to laugh. The adjuster is probably doing a very good job for his company.

One place to begin is with with a photograph shouwing the chip and the crack.

There are online value guides more in line with the real value but forget where they are. Am sure someone else can provide the link(s).

[Guest ekvh]

Thanks, Padgett, the advice to laugh does help. They say the picture shows it connected to the stone chip, So, I guess I have to go to my agent and have them verify that it is not. Perhaps they force me to get a rental car. Maybe it will crack between now and then.

[Vincent Vega]

They base the value on the NADA valuation guide. According to NADA the Reatta is just another car. No more valuable than a 1989 LeSabre with low miles. Is the adjuster from your provider or theirs? Now, if your policy is such that it is considered a collectible auto it is reflected in your premiums or limits the use of the car. I'll make the assumption you have basic coverage, thus that is what is going to be covered. You can't expect to pay basic coverage premiums and get collector car adjustments in the event of an accident. It doesn't work that way. Go to NADA or Kelly Blue Book and see what it's worth. I suspect the adjuster pulled the 1,000 value out of his ......

[reattadudes]

they will TRY to use value guides for regular cars, but they need to be schooled.

we use the CPI Guide (Cars of Particular Interest, and others) for valuations, as it more accurately reflects real value of collector cars like a Reatta. you don't "book out" a muscle car or a Rolls-Royce in an NADA Guide; the Reatta shouldn't be booked there, either.

as I've mentioned before, our average customer with a 1988-1990 Reatta coupe with 170,000 miles, in average condition, gets an average valuation of $7,240. that's an average number for (at this point) 76 cars in the last 15 months. lower mileage, all 1991 models, and 1990 convertibles are worth substantially more.

it basically comes down to this one thing: would you prefer to be the victim, and complain about getting screwed by the insurance company (and at the same time allowing the adjuster to get a big fat bonus for settling cheap), or would you rather step into the driver's seat, and get the correct valuation for your car?

it's totally up to you.

Mike

buickreattaparts.com

[Vincent Vega]

If you book the value of a car is higher, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to pay higher premiums? I'm not saying a Reatta is not valuable, nor am I defending the adjuster. I just feel if you expect higher coverage you should expect to pay higher premiums. It's like owning a house. At tax time you want a low assessment/appraisal so your taxes aren't as high. At sale time you want it assessed/appraised higher so you get more for it. You can't have both.

[reattadudes]

if you have full coverage insurance, you should expect FAIR MARKET VALUE for your car, not some ridiculously low offer.

it would be truly scary to have full-coverage insurance, and be happy with a $1,000 settlement for a total loss. the premium would probably be more than that every year.

it comes down to this. if Reattas were worth as little as many think they are, I would not be in business, or anyone else who sells Reatta parts. Pilkington would have absolutely no market for their $2,200 windshields; something this costly would be an automatic total, wouldn't it? in reality, they sell about 300 per year, and all of us in the Reatta parts business keep pretty busy.

here, we sold 19 front clips in the month of January alone. the average body shop repair ticket was over $6,000, and all were paid by insurance companies. if Reattas had no value, this would have never happened.

for those who question the Reatta's value, call a collector insurance company like Hagerty. what's interesting here are two things:

-first, they have no problem insuring a Reatta, as it's recognized as a collector car. not every car is recognized as a collector car that is this new; their criteria for this are quite strict.

-even though you can set coverage at wherever you like, their opening minimum will be in the $8,000-$10,000 range for a 1988-1990 coupe. have you ever had an insurance company offer you more than your car was worth? I didn't think so. they know the value of the Reatta. if you choose to value your car at less than they feel it's worth, well..that's up to you.

by the way, many regular insurance companies offer "stated value" coverage. the cost is quite reasonable, and it avoids any issues like this if there is a claim.

Mike

buickreattaparts.com

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vincent Vega</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you book the value of a car is higher, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to pay higher premiums? I'm not saying a Reatta is not valuable, nor am I defending the adjuster. I just feel if you expect higher coverage you should expect to pay higher premiums. It's like owning a house. At tax time you want a low assessment/appraisal so your taxes aren't as high. At sale time you want it assessed/appraised higher so you get more for it. You can't have both. </div></div>Two things should govern the premium you pay, the true market value of the car and the risk assumed by the insurance company. As the value of the car goes up so should the premium but as the risk to the insurance company goes down there should be a reduction to the premium. That is the reason some insurance companies may require you do certain things, (like storing the car in a garage, limiting miles times driven, higher deductibles), to reduce their risk in order for you to get a good rate on your premium and a higher settlement if your car is damaged.

High settlements and low premiums do not go together without some type of trade off.

[Guest palosfv3]

You didnt state if the insurance carrier is yours or the other parties. The quality of the insurance carrier will become evident quickly and will determine your next best steps.

Be carefull about the information given sometimes it isnt accurate. Insurance companies will do whatever is in their best interest before a claimant or insured.

If your car has a collector car policy or not may not have much relevance on the vehicle value. If your carrying a stated value policy then you have an preagreed upon value between you and your carrier.

First things first the windshield . Where exactly is the damage to the vehicle and what is the severity of the impact ? If this is minor damage ( no shifting of structural members or panels) the likelyhood of windshield damage being related to the impact may be minimal. Stone chips that have been on a car for an extended time will show evidence of age. If the chip has broken through the outer layer of glass and exposed the laminate to the elements water will eventualy wick its way between the layers and start to separate the sections. An expierienced

person will be able to determine if the damage is fresh or not by the extent of the delamination. Forces travel through the structure of an auto during impact . If a windshield has a chip , even a minor one , the integrity of the glass is compromised and a strong enough force from an impact can cause a crack to eminate from the chip. Is this loss related ? Look at the lower section f the windshield sometimes the hinge will bounce back and cause damage to a window . Sometimes its very easy to relate and other times it can be difficult. The willingness , adjuster knowledge and insurance company policy all come into play if your attempting to get reimbursement from a carrier.

If your trying to resolve a claim with the other parties insurance company to clear the guy that damaged your car liability to you (Claimant) , different standards apply than if your using your carrier to pay for the repairs under your collision coverage in you auto policy( 1st party ). As a claimant they need to make you whole ( you suffer no loss or gain in the strictest sense) . They may owe loss of use and other incidentals that are not part of your settlement on a 1st party claim. This can get a little complicated but ultimately they owe the cost of the loss to clear the liability. Their adjuster is trying to negotiate the cost of loss with you . He may throw a lo ball figure at you or he may be really trying to be upfront with you . Its not easy if this is a first time expierience for you. Just because he says this shop will do it for this price doesn't make his offer legitimate or accurate. Just because he says the value guide states the car is worth $x doesnt make him right either. The insurance agent will be trying to settle the loss for as little as he can . Dont forget their loss ratios are calculated into their compensation package. If the loss is being adjusted by an independent appraiser for the insurance company. He is obligated to write a fair and unbiased evaluation . If he favors one or the other he could become liable for that difference under the errors and omissions coverage he is required to carry.

Much of this has slight variations from state to state. No fault states are a whole other issue.

The collision portion of a policy usually states the fair market value of the vehicle as part of the contract. This is a broad statement and many carriers will use value guides that will provide the lowest market reports. Check with your state department of insurance for clarification of what the criteria is for setting value of a vehicle. There are times when the market value can exceed the stated value in a first party loss. When this happens its the owners problem he didnt stay up on his cars value. Be careful with any of the value guides especially when it comes to collector/special interest cars. The info is not as accurate or updated as timely as the daily drivers and as such is very questionable.

[reattadudes]

palosfv3,

thank you so much for your post; you're right on the money. I have repeatedly asked the original poster for more information, but at this point have still not received any response.

it would appear from his initial posting that the other party is indeed at fault, and your are correct that they must do more to make his car "whole" than if his company was responsible.

the windshield is a very difficult one to call for several reasons. first, I don't know if you're aware, but the Reatta does not have metal fenders; they are glass reinforced plastic (GRP). in temperatures below 40 degrees, they will quickly shatter with a minimum of pressure. I don't think this minor impact (allegedly only the fender was damaged) the car received would do any damage to the windsield.

the Reatta is a very strong automobile. we had a customer have a recent collision in Minnesota in below-zero (-26) cold. he was broadsided (left side) by a lifted 4X4, hit squarely in the front of the driver's door (deflected in 3 feet), which also took out the front fender, rear quarter panel, and blew out the rear window. the windshield remained intact and uncracked. this is very common.

we work very hard to help everyone get a fair settlement for their cars. however, we do need to speak with you first (by telephone) to get more details, so we will know the best way to proceed with your settlement.

we have working arrangements established with many insurance carriers, and this makes the job much easier.

Mike

buickreattaparts.com

[padgett]

It has been a long time but at one time if a car was totaled you could ask for a replacement instead of money. Of course their idea of an "equivalent replacement" may not match yours.

[Guest palosfv3]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: padgett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has been a long time but at one time if a car was totaled you could ask for a replacement instead of money. Of course their idea of an "equivalent replacement" may not match yours. </div></div>

Insurance companies never in my time in the auto business (40 years)would replace a car for an insured or claimant. They will not take on the responsibility of replacing your car with a used car of any quality and then assume the liability of that vehicles performance. Insurance companies will settle the loss for a cash value to eliminate this issue. Why anyone would even think of allowing someone else especially an insurance company to do this is beyond me.

You would only ask the question of the insurance company to provide validity of their offer for the replacement value of the vehicle.

[padgett]

Was around 1972 in Indiana and I forget what's first.

[doitnow]

Several years ago in Il the insurance Co's had 30 days to supply anyone with a totaled auto, a list of replacement autos for about the same amount of money as they were willing to pay.

Not many people had knowledge of this law.