Generator Problems on 1960 Electra?

[JanZverina]

Last weekend I tightened up the generator and A/C belts on my 1960 Electra 401 V8. Not too tight, but even with good quality identical belts, one is slightly looser then the other. (These two belts run identical for the Gen and A/C.) At idle in Drive, the generator light on the dash would flicker and then go off when I accelerated - I was told this is normal (?). But after about 20 miles, the Gen light went on - and stayed on. I checked all the connections at the gen, battery, voltage reg. Any easy diagnostics to see what's what? Any help appreciated before I contact a rebuild service - if anyone knows of a good one (San Diego/So.Cal area), please let me know.

Jan Zverina

1960 4719

San Diego/BCA #39915.

[TxBuicks]

My 61 Electra has the same setup, with two belts going around the generator. The light has never flickered at idle so I don't think that is correct. Certainly it was never designed to act that way. Have you checked the voltage coming out of the generator? Maybe your generator is going bad.

[JanZverina]

Thanks TxBuicks. Going through the repair file of the previous owner(I bought the car last April), I see the gen was rebuilt once in 2003 and once in 2006. Either the rebuilds were not so good or something else. I am going to put a reading on it this weekend. I read somewhere that an overcharging condition can also illuminate the light. Also, there seems to be different voltage regs for A/C and non A/C Buicks in 60, maybe 61 as well. Someone said only the A/C ones are available now.

[oldohioan]

How many miles on the brushes?? In my day they were usually the weak link. If the brush wears down to the point where spring pressure isnt high enuf, the brushes tend to 'bounce' at higher speeds (doesnt seem like your problem but...). Can even reach a point where there is no contact at all (the brush will bind in the holder and wont touch the commutator any more).

3 years between two rebuilds seems strange? Ought to go at least 80K first time. I never had to do it again...

If during the rebuild(s)the commutator was worked on and there were -any- rough edges left on the bars it will eat brushes rather quickly. This sounds likely...

Worth checking the brushes... Should you find that the commutator is rough (causing excessive wear), use some 200grit ruby cloth -by hand- and smooth the bars. Then

be sure -all- little bits of copper are removed from between the bars, and the wiring leading up to them.

DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL or sandpaper!!!!!! And protect the bearings from dirt when you remove the armature.

I have to presume the generator was 'flashed' or there would have been no charging in the first place. My bet is on the brushes. Again this doesnt seem like your problem but...)

Another thing you could do while you're under the hood is pull the cover on the regulator and clean/burnish the points on it. They get crudy just like the ignition points but seldom if ever get any attention. This could contribute..

Hope this helps!!!

[JanZverina]

Thanks for your input, oldohioan - and your diagnosis is correct. Brushes are out of whack and springs are weak - it looks like it was not rebuilt with much care in the past. Thanks again!

[JoelsBuicks]

Oldohioan, that reminds me of my efforts to rejuvanate a worn commutator on a '36 generator. The individual copper bars that make up the commutator are separated by gaps that are filled with mica. A proper operation is to have the mica recessed from 1/32" to 1/16" below the tangent of the commutator. I found a reference that even suggested that heavily worn commutators may even have the mica standing proud of the surface and that the brushes would skip along the mica and cause problems. Unbelievably, this is how mine was. After truing up the commutator surface, I used part of a hacksaw blade, that I ground to the right thickness, and sawed out the mica. I won't know for a few months how well this worked - just thought it might be a source of Jan's problems.

Joel

[oldohioan]

Glad to help.

Now maybe you could help me. When you get new brushes ask if they are a pretty standard size/shape for GM generators (in the 35-60Amp range anyway).

I have a 62 Olds F85 with 35A and have not found brushes listed. The BOP compacts were mostly orphaned while full size GM cars went on and on ;-)

I suspect pretty much one size fits almost all but have no access to a parts cross reference book.

BTW When you replace the brushes it is also a good idea to use the ruby cloth, grit side up, and fully seat them newbies to the curve of the armature.

[oldohioan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoelsBuicks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oldohioan, that reminds me of my efforts to rejuvanate a worn commutator on a '36 generator. The individual copper bars that make up the commutator are separated by gaps that are filled with mica. A proper operation is to have the mica recessed from 1/32" to 1/16" below the tangent of the commutator. I found a reference that even suggested that heavily worn commutators may even have the mica standing proud of the surface and that the brushes would skip along the mica and cause problems. Unbelievably, this is how mine was. After truing up the commutator surface, I used part of a hacksaw blade, that I ground to the right thickness, and sawed out the mica. I won't know for a few months how well this worked - just thought it might be a source of Jan's problems.

Joel</div></div>

Yes that also can be a problem. I was guessing that the generator in question most likely didnt have that much wear because of its age.

Now, my 40 Ford with 16 years on it (mileage unk) still had good clearance in 1956 and my 47 Ford was still crankin out good in 1960 (again mileage unk).

I did rebuild a 1962 Pontiac Tempest generator in 1967 at 85K. Its worst problem was an out of round and slightly off center commutator. But even after machining true it still had ~1/16" recessed mica.

Currently I have (just acquired in Oct 07) a 1962 F85 Cutlass with 82K. It still is charging well but I am looking for brushes(and a few other parts too to be prepared) ;-)

It must have been tough to get the mica and not hit the soft copper bars!!!

[Guest OLBUICKS]

On my 38 I had a local guy that rebuilds old gen and alt, he rebuilt mine this fall. He put a new armiture in, and new brushes.. He was only getting 6.2 volts on a bench check after rebuild.. He took it back apart seated the brushes and found one of the brush spring was a little weak, replace it and it now puts out 7 volts.

[oldohioan]

Found a couple of part nbrs (I believe) will work on FDull size Buicks. NAPA #R423 Borg Warner X270

If you have different please post. Im still looking ;-)