rofly1 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I had the alternator replaced about 2 weeks ago. It was putting out about 12.7, then when replaced it was at 13.6....had it checked again today and it is back down to 12.7.....took it back to pep boys and they said it was the battery. New battery purchased 2/08 at sears. Went to sears and they said the battery was good. Still having the same problems...she starts when the engine is warm no problems, in colder weather it does not turn over...the guage never charges.....could there be a fuseable link problem????????Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinCamFan Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Roger,If you checked/replaced the positive battery cable (like I mentioned in that other thread you started long ago) I didn't see it. So did you? Also have you followed your main ground back to where bolts up to the transmission? I am certainly no electrical whiz but I do know in order to move electrons, your positive cable needs to be free from corrosion (a common occurance when moisture gets inside the + cable) and your ground needs to be clean/tight/intact without a bunch of broken wires.Two other things you mentioned that raise my eyebrows, "Pep Boys" and "Sears" Did you see the kids that were working on your TC while you were there? Find a small independant shop and start a relationship with a mechanic that 'Gives a rats ass' about your car. I do most of my own work but I still have a good mechanic for my wife's car and alignments etc.Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Alan,I did replace both terminals as you suggested. There didnt seem to be any corrosion. I havent checked the wire to the transmission. I didnt have pep Boys do the work. I just purchased the alternator there. I am getting a Bosch starter there tomorrow, and am taking the car to a garage where the state police get there cars repaired. The garage that has been working on the car closed up and relocated about 30 miles away. I had hoped to get someone more reliable a little closer.Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I think it's the Alternator; ~ But ~ more partially bad batteries have killed alternators than most would believe. A partially bad battery overworks the alternator that is trying to keep it charged.. 1.= Check Battery; Fully charge battery 12.5 volts after 1 hour rest or 1.275 specific gravity on a battery hydrometer. with voltmeter hooked up, put a load test on it for 20 seconds. Voltage should not drop below 10 volts, and should return to 12 volts 2-3 minutes after load test. Most shops have a load tester. 2.= Alt. They generate alternating current multiple diodes change that to DC current that we can then use in our cars. If 1 of these diodes goes bad the charging capacity drops. Most electrical or electronic parts that go bad do so in 30-60 days It could be a multiple of things; but I going by the facts that when you changed the alternator before and were getting good voltage, everything eas working OK, Now a problem, now low voltage again.. Good Luck, Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinCamFan Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Roger, thanks for the update, otherwise we don't know what to check off the possibilities list . That shop sounds like a good place to have work done. Lou is right about the electronic parts (and turbochargers fit the same pattern as well) if they last through the first couple months of service, they usually last a long time. If they are going to fail, it happens almost right away...Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Hopefully the new garage will be able to change the starter and new alternator today. I should know by 12:00. It did seem odd to me that the old alternator was reading the same as the new one, 12.7 The guage on the dash never seems to be on the charge side like it used to Thanks for the valuable info you guys have, thanks again for helping all of us.....cant wait for summer she starts right upRoger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 That "starting right up" syndrome can be leading you to a false conclusion.. We mostly have an easier time starting any engine when it's "warm". When a battery is bad it can show that the engine start's right up; ~ But ~ what's happening is the Battery has enough in it to allow the starter to initially rotate the engine and what you think is the battery and starter spinning the engine over to start is not really those two. It is the engine actually trying to start and all it needs is a tiny bit of movement from the starter to get it going and it spins itself thru the cycle until it starts. It's not really the starter spinning the engine; but the engine itself almost starting that's doing it.. Loup.s. That load test is very important. I have a load tester that I used for about 50 + years. The labels have long since worn off, and it has many different time of load settings; but after a time the use becomes second nature and I forgot the actual size of the load in amps. and how long exactly to hold the load under certain conditions. sorry I don't remember the specefics, It's a matter of feel. lz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 A normal starter load is about 170 - 175 amps DC. Any more indicated a starter grounding out and this, more often than not, will allow the motor to turn over but not start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Reichert Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hopefully the new shop will listen, then do a diagnostics to find the problem. Did you have a heat shield on the starter? The turbo and exhaust are right there to cook the solenoid. Available at dealers. there are lots of potential causes and it will get expensive without diagnostics.Some other causes. Bad splice in the alternator harness from batt to head ground, same for little brown wire on transmission, parasitic drain overnight.I posted Hemi's simple trouble shooter on the Yahoo site under diagnostics. The Yahoo format is not as good in some ways but much better for storing useful info under files.My electrical guru explained to me the way to check for bad splices is under a load. Simple resistance may show good with just one strand of wire making contact but will show bad under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Dude Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Roger, in reading all this, I feel you are grabbing for straws. Your first problem seemed to be poor alternator output. Your comment about difficult starting during colder weather has much to do with battery voltage at the time you are trying to start the car and not alternator output, exactly. Then you say you are getting a starter from Pep Boys too. What they sell is the cheapest rebuilt stuff you can find although most non professional parts stores sell the same low quality stuff. So what made you decide to get a starter too? You have not solved the first problem, it's foolish to chase after another (VERY DIFFICULT TO REPLACE) part. You say you have a relatively new Sears battery. I will accept it as good but maybe low on charge. The charging condition is where you need to focus. You should see something like 14.2 volts at the battery when the engine has been running for a time. ANYTHING less than, let's say, 13.9 volts is too low. Either the alternator, the wiring or the voltage regulator in your engine controller (SMEC) has got a problem. Narrow it down and repair that first.The starter will take too much current to allow the engine to start if the battery is down on charge.I hate to sound harsh but it is frustrating to read when I see someone drowning in problems and there is a solution so near by. It's right there under your hood. Have that state police garage check it out. Tell them your problem and let THEM diagnose and repair it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 The state police garage hasnt had time to look at my car. I do have an appointment for this morning. When cold the car will not turn over. Nothing. If it turns over when cold it starts right up. I dont have a problem when the car is warm.I thank you for the advice. I thought it may be an electricalproblem. The alternator guage never shows a charge. A major discharge when trying to start cold. The old alternator was putting out 12.7. The new alternator when first installed was putting out 13.6. After about a week it was putting out 12.7 again. Not knowing as much as you (as a group) know I think the problem is from the alternator to the battery. I will have them check first what you all have suggested.Thanks for the help....Roger (I cant wait for summer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 I forgot to mention that when I jump the battery is starts right up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Dude Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 It sounds like a low voltage problem. Have the alternator output checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Took the car to a local auto electric shop. They have found an intermittant draw at .22 amps. There is an after market radio (blaupunkt) that a local shop installed with gps and a cd changer. They said that was installed improperly because you can turn it on with the key off. There is a timeout on it though. Also, the antenna will not retract with the radio off. It will only retract when I turn the key off. They checked the light in the trunk. not the problem. After 6 hours they said to bring it back when I could leave it for a few days. Thanks, Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mtworkshop Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Look at the glove box light switch. I found it necessary to glue a penny to the Glove box door so that when the door shut the light went out.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Thanks I will take a look at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Roger,The more you ramble on about different symptoms only helps frustrate the situation. The more I read about this the more convinced I become you have a bad starter. Get a load test on the starter. It should NOT be over 175 amps. This will either confirm or elimimate a faulty starter once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofly1 Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 Sorry about the rambling. I am taking the car back to the shop on Monday. I will have them check it out. I dont think its the starter because the symptom is the car wont turn over, when I jump it, it starts right up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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