How can you Judge it?

[Jim Bollman]

I did a quick count of this years show and about 20% of the winners were red. That included some two tone where they were only half red and some fairly dark red almost burgundy cars. More than I remembered, but when you bring up a screen of thumb nails it still doesn't jump out as out of place in numbers.

[novaman]

As for the "people's" chioce system, I do believe the Wayne Drumlins do have one of the best systems by it being other antique car owners judging another ramdonly select antique car class and the street rods doing the same for a street rod class. That cuts out most of the problems of voting for your buddy, put it is cars owners judging cars/workmanship they are fimialar with.

But still, how do you educate people that the car that is decked out in chrome and custom fabric is NOT an antique car and would not win anything at an AACA national meet? That it falls in custom and would better in the street rod class.

[Guest Stonefish]

Do you really think AACA judging is above and beyond biases and favoritism or that they are all knowing about cars?? If you do...I have a bridge for sale!

I don't care if judges are judging cars, diving, gymnastics, figure skating or an art contest. You will ALWAYS have the human factor. You don't think a hardcore Ford guy would judge a Chevy a little differently than a Ford in the same class??

We had participant judging at our VW event for years and for the 7 years as I was President, we never had one complaint on the results of judging. Yet, at a "judged" VW event...never fail, there was always a line for complaints! When chosen by your "peers"...that sometimes says a lot more than being judged by a "judge".

Now...if you are talking about some small show where spectators vote...that is different!

[imported_Bob Hill]

Participant "judging" isn't judging in my opinion - it is participants picking their favorite car(s) in a particular class. For example, I have never seen anyone look under a car during participant "judging". As a judge I have seen cars come to local shows that looked great until you looked underneath and it looked as if they had been out in the fields plowing with it just the day before.

personally I couldn't care less what the participants think of my car if ti is a "judged" show - I want a group of experienced judges looking it over and then if the car wins it is because it has been "judged" superior to those in it's class (assuming the judges know what they were doing). But as I said earlier, trophies mean little to me any more - did when I first entered the hobby but now they are more of a hassle than they are worth

[Guest Stonefish]

"assuming the judges know what they are doing"

bingo....

[imported_Bob Hill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stonefish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"assuming the judges know what they are doing"

bingo.... </div></div>

But even bad judges are better than participant judging IMO because they are at least usually with someone who does know what they are doing

[Guest Stonefish]

Really...I'm down with you and dig events where judging isn't even issue.

My point...when anyone is put into a judging situation, be it at the local fire house with the participants judging OR an AACA event with AACA judges...the human factor is and always will be an issue. Heck, at some shows don't they look for volunteers out of the participants do assist with judging (not AACA per say) but I've seen that done.

Throw a hat on someone with the word judge on it...isn't like going into a phone booth and coming out with an "S" on your shirt.

[ex98thdrill]

One thing that you and many have overlooked on the local shows is the issue of being liberal.

Many of these shows are fundraisers for either the region or some local charity, so the more cars they can get, the more money that is brought into the organization. Without the higher number of cars, these organizations lose out on the money needed to keep these organizations in operation. In order to keep the attendence up, and the money up, the local shows have to try to keep everyone happy. In order to keep people happy, they need to be more on the liberal side.

Personally I like the AACA's judging method. Yes it's strict to a degree, but they don't nail people over how the cotter keys are installed, lack of overspray, etc., yet they don't allow the mag wheels, chrome air cleaner and chrome valve covers. The beauty of AACA is that as long as you and your competition go to all the same meets, you'll only lose out to a certain vehicle once (twice if it's an AGNM). On the local level, you could lose out to the same vehicle for five years and never get anything.

[novaman]

It has been touched upon slightly in the expense of needing a lot of tropies that get wasted if you use the AACA classes with multiple awards. With the NC Region and Alamance Region out of the entry fee they each get roughly $5 after paying for the trophies. The differance between the two is with the NC Region spring and fall meets you must be an AACA member & pre-registered like at national meet. They know the max number of awards they need. With the Alamance Region show it is open to the general public. I've seen as few as about 20 cars to about 110 cars at the shows over the years. The year with about 20 cars, the day was steady rain. A lot of leftover trophies that year. Where Alamance makes up for the cost of tropies out of the registration is through sponership and runs an roughly 5x8" ad in the local paper the wed before the show listing the sponsors plus there are posters placed around town that also list the sponsors. With the economy the way it is, it's really going to be tough selling those ads this coming year.

Around here Pat, you won't lose out the same vehicle every year because the unoffical theroy seems to be "let's keep everybody happy and give a 1st or 2nd to eveyone in attendance".

[DriverEd]

Having just joined this forum, this is my first posting. I went to look at the judging threads because I have been fascinated (frustrated?) with some observations based on my own experience at Hershey and other AACA meets such as Cumberland and soon to be Gettysburg. My "Trophy" is a 1931 Model A Roadster - a true 2004 barn find discovered by accident only 20 miles from my home in western NY. A friend and I restored most of it ourselves, leaving only the painting to be done by an area paint shop (base/clear Washington Blue/Black) and the upholstery/top by LaBaron-Bonney done in Mass. at their shop.

My first judging experience reseulted in a 2nd Jr. at Hershey in 2006 (yes, we worked very hard to get it done by then). After correcting the deductions noted, my 2nd attempt resulted in a 1st Jr. at Hershey, but with a whole new set of deductions (no repeats) Those were corrected and I went on to Cumberland at the Sr. level, got another set of deductions that exceeded each of the first two trys - but I did get two repeat offenses then, and of course no award. On to Hershey in '08 with the 'gigs' fixed, and a Judging Standards book about worn out from my studying it so much. I got hit with the worst evaluation of my experiences.

Still, I am going to Gettysburg to try one more time. That is of course, once I correct the gigs earlier this Spring after the snow melts - after all I do live near Buffalo. My friends think I am nuts; they are probably right. But - it's a nice nuts to be, I am having a ball and the competition adds to the comraderie, the food, the wonderful cars to see, all as a result of dedicated volunteers of the AACA running great events. A fellow I met at Gettysburg told me "once you win your Senior, and if you ever win a Grand National, the heat's off and you can enjoy the show". Well,OK, but why not enjoy the journey? Just like life, nothing's perfect, lots of things are subjective, and not many issues or evaluations have answers that are black or white. Guess I'll paint my next car a shade of gray.

DriverEd

1931 Model A Ford Roadster

1964 Chevelle Malibu Convertible

1957 Chevrolet BelAir Sport Coupe

1947 Whizzer

1937 body

[Guest imported_Bookreader]

Novaman. A good overview of history and one many should read. It interested me today as I just returned from a funeral and a luncheon honoring a 94 year old VERY active antique car hobbyist in our area. Howard Hampton was young in all of his interests especially the AACA and all it involved. He will be missed.

The luncheon was held at the <span style="text-decoration: underline">Lamb Tavern</span> which continues to be a fine restaurant in this area where the AACA had its roots. You also spoke of many people who lived in this same area and were the founders of this concept of appreciating the older cars and restoring them to drive. Theodore (Ted) Fiala was a good friend of ours and he believed strongly in the joy this hobby brings; not of awards which are nice to receive but of the friendships we make as we get to know others with similar interests in these vehicles.He believed in working behind the scenes to contribute knowledge and effort to assist others in the hobby. To attend a local show/meet is great fun but to attend an AACA National Meet which hold the same requirements for judging all over the country [and even in Puerto Rico] is most important to have a superior standard for which to be judged. But remember that if a trophy is so very important to anyone, just go to a trophy store and have one made to be certain that your name is on it and your car is held in high esteem in your eyes. But to have a car even on a show field with others who have restored their vehicles with care is also an honor unto itself. Everyone cannot be a winner in many activities but the pleasure of having accomplished a restoration provides pride to oneself. When a person attends an "owners class" or even a "judging school" they will gain an appreciation for the effort and consistancy which the AACA provides in judging.

To the gentleman who is disheartened with our AACA, I hope that he will join with us, attend a National AACA Meet and its activities and find the joy in the hobby.

Most of us are not wealthy, we are a variety of ages, we have different values about many things BUT the one thing we have in common is our love of the automobile and especially those that we remember from our younger days or those from a period of time longer than many are old.