'34 1101 Phaeton Tubing ???

[tbirdman]

Knowing the value and desirability of the different cars is the hardest thing when getting into the car buying end. Doing the proper research when buying a car is a step that needs to be done. If you remember back in 2005, I was in the market for a 30s Packard but I had no idea what was what and the value of the cars in relation to body body style and year etc. However again I must thank those from this group who pointed me in the right direction and the resulting choice. When I started in 2005 I didn't know the differenc ebetween a Phaeton or a Touring let alone what a Phaeton was.

[West Peterson]

Ken

That's exactly the reason its deceiving to call it a phaeton when it's not.

I'm going to tell Novice A (you, a couple of years ago), that a phaeton is more valuable than a touring. Novice A will then make a decision as to weather or not he wants to spend the extra money for a phaeton. He finally says, "Why not? Life is short," and proceeds to search for a phaeton. He stumbles upon this eBay sale, perhaps at the last minute, cannot get a hold of me to get my opinion, and presses the "buy" button thinking he's found the car of his dreams. Granted, he looked at it and liked it, but ended up paying phaeton price for a touring.

Is that fraud on the part of the seller? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer.

[34PackardRoadsta]

West,

Yes, it is fraud if the seller knew he had a touring car. If he honestly thought it a phaeton, than things get messy.

It would be the same thing as saying that you were selling a car with 50,000 miles on it but you knew the car's odometer had been reset from 150K.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yep, Messy......

[tbirdman]

I agree that the seller should not call it a Phaeton nor should he state that its got correct woodgraining or is a mint car. But as you say, calling it a Phaeton is worse as that can not be corrected for any amount of dollars.

[Matt Harwood]

This sounds a lot like the "Classic" vs. "classic" debate. It's all in how the words are interpreted. Like classic, "phaeton" is also a highly misused word--Buick called their convertible sedans "phaetons" in the late '30s and early '40s. I've always kind of though of any Full Classic open 4-door without windows as a phaeton. While it probably boils down to what, exactly, the manufacturer called it, I wonder if there's actually a dishonest act involved in the misuse of a vague and variously-defined word like "phaeton."

If you're going to drop that kind of coin on a car like this, then you'll do your due diligence and find out what a 7-passenger open car is worth, phaeton or not. Nobody is buying this car on a whim, but if you can afford to do that, you won't care.

It's also worth exactly as much as a buyer is willing to pay for it, regardless of what it is called (a rose by any other name...). It's possible to overpay for something and still feel like you got a good value. Case in point: I suspect I overpaid for my latest car based on comparative market values. However I decided what the car was worth to me, and I don't feel ripped off.

Fraud? Hard to say, and harder to prosecute. Things like value are always subjective.

Just my inflation-adjusted $0.02.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to drop that kind of coin on a car like this, then you'll do your due diligence and find out what a 7-passenger open car is worth, phaeton or not. </div></div>

Matt

I was a professional appraiser for many years. It does not surprise me any more at how many people do their research AFTER they bought the car.

While many manufacturers may have butchered the term phaeton (as you said, Buick called their Touring a Phaeton, and later on their convertible sedan), Packard did not, so I don't think this is a "Classic" vs "classic" debate. It's pretty cut and dry.

[tbirdman]

Here's another car that the seller claims to be original and a candidate for preservation. Seems odd that there would be no wood graining or a blue engine. Or the coils are mounted on the firewall, incorrect door panels and there is a bunch of rubber tubing in the engine compartment. It's interesting the price that is also be asked for a car that needs a restoration, $150K.

[34PackardRoadsta]

It's also missing the automatic choke (some sort of manual hack has been put in place), the oil cooler and filter, and the top mechanism looks like it is missing big parts.

On the plus side, it looks like it has the correct distributor, carb, the manifolds look to be ok, and the decorative bits look pretty complete and in decent shape.

Really, overall a pretty complete and restorable car. 150K, however, seems really really steep.

[Earl B.]

What color does it look like to y'all... looks grey to me, and they say it's green... Are my eyes that bad???? B

[tbirdman]

Looks like possibly an olive drab.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Really, overall a pretty complete and restorable car. 150K, however, seems really really steep. </div></div>

I figure the seller wants about $125K out of it. He knows the market well so it shows you the value that the a complete 34 coupe roadster will have. Also show you the difference that a pretty complete standard eight has ($182K asking) vs. a super eight ($150K) that need a complete restoration.

[Matt Harwood]

Hyman always has some amazing hardware, but their knowledge of the cars is sketchy at best and they over-estimate the condition of the cars. They had a '41 Special convertible coupe that they claimed was a #1 car. It's more like a 2 or 2- with a great many incorrect items.

Their cars are <span style="font-style: italic">grossly</span> overpriced. $36K for a used '76 Eldorado?!? $125,000 for a MK II Continental?!? $40K for <span style="font-style: italic">this?!? </span>What are they smoking? I wonder if they do that knowing that there will be <span style="font-style: italic">heavy</span> negotiations involved.

[tbirdman]

My brief experience with them is a good price drop from the asking price. They do price their cars high but then come down.

It's hard to put a value on something like that squashed bus, but I guess more power to him if he gets a buyer.

[Earl B.]

If he sells the squashed bus, I'm sure there are several people with bridges that will want to see the buyer of the bus...hahaha.... B

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: West Peterson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glidden Tours are set up so that you go at your own pace. The folks driving in modern vehicles, such as your Packard, tend to "sleep in", while the older vehicle driver's are usually up and out of the hotel much earlier in order to be at the right place at the right time. I know that the people who take the pre-teen cars have an awful lot of fun, and they usually travel in packs. I like to get up and out early anyway, because I like to stop along the way if I see something that looks interesting.

So, you take the Cadillac, I'll take the Packard. </div></div>

West,

We might be able to work something out...unless you want to stretch out on the back seat of the Cadillac. </div></div>

Here's a recent post that says the Glidden tour will not be in Portland but perhaps in Colorado. So West you'll have to figure out another way to drive my 32.