Guest imported_Speedster Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 So, now that we've determined that the '30 used a slip-balancer, I'm eager to find out if the '31 used the same type. Probably not, if Tom's (packin31) '31 has bolts at the outer edge of the balancer. Packard was probably experimenting with many different designs during those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Rick,Here are some pictures of my damper as promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 39Super8 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Tom,Glad you posted the distributor, and separate drive shaft pictures. I was beginning to think I had the only distributor with an offset drive slot. The distributor obviously cannot be lifted and rotated. What I did not realize is that the whole distributor assembly including 3 bolt pedestal could be removed allowing the separate drive shaft to be removed, rotated 180 degrees and dropped back into the engine. When I sent my distributor out the be re-bushed and curved, the fellow put the drive back on backwards. I new this, because I never disturbed the crankshaft position. I guess the earlier cars do have an offset distributor drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Rick,Thanks for the explanation, but that still doesn't really help me determine why there should be two disks with friction bearings and limited slip to achieve the dampening. Oh, wait, I didn't read the whole answer. Got it .Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Thanks for the pics Tom (packin31) Yes, that one is different Also.So, there's only 2 bolts attaching the pulley onto the balancer and the pulley is keyed to the crankshaft and the large center bolt holds the complete assembly on crankshaft, is that correct?It appears to be much larger diameter than earlier balancers, also. Yes, those large countersunk bolts look rather Imposing, I don't think I would have tried to take that one apart either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Oh, wait, I didn't read the whole answer. Got it . </div></div>Yes, Don't Forget the 'Magic'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Here's the parts list to give you even more to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 That shows that the same dampener assembly (same part number) was used in '30, '31, and '32, but we have already determined that the ones used in '30 and '31 are Different. That may mean that they were all the same basic design with some changes or they could have changed designs in mid year, of '30, and Tom's '30 (733) has the older design? Even tho the dampener Assemblies had the same part number, the designs definitely Changed, because the internal parts changed numbers thru those years (with at least 2 changes). Man, this is Gettin' too complicated for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Speedster,When I look at the parts list, it seems to me that the design changed between each series. All have the 'vibration damper assembly' but I think that is a dummy code for the entire thing assembled. The components that went into each assembly clearly changed, with the most apparently dramatic change occurring from the 7th to 8th series; the 7th series columns contain the greatest number of unique parts among all three.But, this brings back the problem of the timing mark I put on my dampener. I have now run the engine for several hours, and my timing mark is still perfect (I haven't futzed with the timing, and it still rides below my little 'pointer'). So, does that mean my dampener needs disassembly and repair?Cheers,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have now run the engine for several hours, and my timing mark is still perfect (I haven't futzed with the timing, and it still rides below my little 'pointer'). So, does that mean my dampener needs disassembly and repair?</div></div> If it's running Good, I wouldn't Worry about it, and be Happy you have a working timing Mark. Now if you were going to make some Cross-country Trips in it, you should probably check into it more, because I've heard that if the balancer is not working properly, it can shorten the life of the main-bearings, etc. High RPMs is when it's really needed. I ran one of my '29 engines Without a balancer on it, for a little while and never got it over 2000.rpm, (to test the engine before I put it in the car and the balancer was hiting my test stand), and I could Not really tell any difference after I got it in the car with the balancer on it. You find out how Long those engines Really are, when trying to fit one on a test-stand made for V8 engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Speedster,As always, thanks for the info.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Did some talking to Packard guys here in Oregon. Seems like their place of choice for rebuilding these dampers is Damper Dudes They are located in California and offer a 2 day turn around service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Only in California would there be a "damper dudes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 tbrid,Good info. Hate the name, but good info .Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I'm looking at the dampener and belt pully assembly. From the drawings supplied, it looks like the screw that holds the pulley on is simple unscrewed to start the disassembly process. However this screw appears to be a rod with a pin thru the end to mate with a hand crank rod. Is there a special or homemade tool that you have used to unscrew this screw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Yes, I cut slots in a wrench-Socket. I found a long 1/2"drive socket (from an air-wrench set) that fit over the large bolt, then drilled a hole thru both sides of it, about 1/2" from outer edge of socket. The drill bit needs to be a little larger than the pin in bolt. Then used a hacksaw to cut down to the holes, forming the needed slots. The width of the slots should be a little less than the diameter of the drilled holes, so the socket will slightly lock around the pin, to keep it from sliping out easy.Also need a long brakeover-bar for the socket and a piece of hard wood or something similar to lock into teeth of flywheel (thru the starter mounting hole, if the engine pan is still on) to keep the crankshaft from turning, when loosening the bolt. The bolt has normal threads (left to loosen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 Rick, KenI just took a deep 7/8" (1/2 drive) socket and used my angle grinder to cut .25" slots in the socket. I made the slots a little over 3/4 of an inch deep. I started with the hacksaw thing and lost patience! Took about 2 minutes, but man you generate a lot of sparks!I can get a shot of my tool if you need it.Ah, geez, I mean a shot of my socket. Or, well, you get the idea. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hey, my trusty Hacksaw is about the only way I get good Excersize anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Thanks for the advice from both of you. I will probably give my local Packard mechanic a call to see what he has before I destroy a socket...though I am given it new life as a different tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rick, KenI can get a shot of my tool if you need it.Ah, geez, I mean a shot of my socket. Or, well, you get the idea. Tom </div></div>Tom...it's scary that you have the same warped sense of humor that I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...though I am giving it new life as a different tool. </div></div>Exactly... Making something Special, from something ordinary.That's why I used one from an Inexpensive set, and it can still be used as an ordinary socket, just won't be quite as strong. I checked and it is the 7/8" size I used also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 OK, I made the "tool" using a die grinder, blocked the fly wheel with a piece of wood and the screw came out fairly easy. Victory on the first try. I like how these "easy" ones. Though now I need to pick up a replacement socket at the April Portland swap meet.Now for the next step. What kind of puller would you use to remove the pulley and the dampener? Steering wheel puller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of puller would you use to remove the pulley and the dampener?</div></div>You want to pull on the inner part of balancer and pulley, not the outer. If your's is the design I think it is, you can use this type puller (which is also used for steering-wheels):http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37824 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Thanks,I have simple steering wheel puller and a pulley puller like puller Looks like the Harbor Freight one is more flexible.I called Damper Dudes. 2 day turnaround @ $225. They refurbish the entire dampener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 You do NOT want to use a pulley-puller. It can damage the balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I would use the wheel puller. The pulley puller might pull the vulcanized center out needlessly, or rather pull the outer discs away from the vulcanized center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I can't remember for the life of me how I pulled mine off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 There are two tapped holes in the center making it easy to use a steering wheel puller or harmonic balancer puller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't remember for the life of me how I pulled mine off. </div></div> I had to drive wooden wedges behind the pulley (which is on the back side), of the '29 Standard-8, since there's no puller attachment bolt holes in that balancer. Luckily it came off fairly easy, before bending anything. I've seen a larger version of the one I linked to above, that would be great for the '29 balancer, but I didn't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Ok it has come back to me. I have a puller like Ken posted a link to. I left the pulley on and that is where I hooked the jaws onto of the puller. I used a deep well socket that fit inside the center hole of the pulley and like you Rick luckily nothing bent for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Is the puller part of the dampener so if I pull off the pully the dampener will come off with it? I thought it would be two puller oprations. One for the pulley and one for the dampener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 The pulley was still bolted to the dampener. So I pulled it off in one operation. Careful the dampener is somewhat heavy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 So the bolts must be on the side you can't see. I'll try the steering wheel puller tonight. Thanks for the advice on it being heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the bolts must be on the side you can't see. </div></div>Not on mine they are on the front side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 I soooo don't get it. Ken, if you get yours off, could you please post some pictures?Thanks,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I will post pictures. ETA of success is 4 hours from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will post pictures. ETA of success is 4 hours from now </div></div>Well beat the ETA by 2 hours! That included getting some fine thread bolts for the steering wheel puller which the one I bought had none. I bought the whole puller as I didn't know what other surprise I would find and I didn't want to make another trip. It was a 2 pull operation. First the pulley and then the dampener. No bolts were holding the pully to the dampener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Oh and yes thanks to all who provided advice. This has been a very interesting thread and I hope more will learn from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Hope you take out those 6 filister head screws and educate yourself about the inner workings before you ship it off for rebuilding. It's interesting and nothing you can mess up. Maybe post a pic of the "guts"? Maybe it was revulcanized in the past and you can save a few bucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hope you take out those 6 filister head screws and educate yourself about the inner workings </div></div>Yes, I'd be interested in seeing that myself! Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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