1935Packard
-
Posts
1,567 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
3
Content Type
Forums
Gallery
Events
Posts posted by 1935Packard
-
-
2 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:
That would be any race car Harry Miller built. Bob
I had to google "harry miller race car" to find out who Harry Miller was, so I'm not sure he satisfies (b). But I also don't know how much Harry Miller race cars sell for.
-
3 hours ago, trimacar said:
My opinion is that Tuckers were interesting cars, and had virtually no following until the movie was made. Yes, it's an interesting story, but seven figures interesting? I think not, but there apparently are deep pockets who think so,
Don't get me wrong, fascinating car, but think of all the incredible cars one could buy for 1.8 million......and seriously, this car would not be in the mix.
I agree that seven figures interesting is odd for a Tucker. At the same time, it's hard to find an American car that is (a) truly distinctive both mechanically and cosmetically, (b) well known to most people in the hobby, and (c) made in such low numbers that most people never see one.
-
6 hours ago, John_Mereness said:
If you are "green" to the hobby I fairly often suggest trying a Porsche 356, 911, or a Mercedes 280 SL (perhaps also a 230 or 250), they tend to be fun cars and at least around the Indiana and Southern Ohio (plus for customers in such as Los Angeles) areas you have solid handfulls of people that can repair one, vibrant club activity, and also they can substitute for a summer daily driver. As to price - it is pure market and you gain or suffer per market, how you maintain your car, and .... And, if I put you in a really nice one then no matter what it's issue are a year or even 5+ years later, if you tire of it and want to move it along to get something else then I can sell it in often a day (we rarely have ever had one in inventory more than two full weeks and car after car from parts cars to 100 pointers trade hands per year without ever seeing the website - surprisingly as to color even the green painted one sell quick, but the white ones still take a little more work to find new owners).
John, I love those cars, but your point about gaining or suffering "per market" is a big one. My sense is that prices were super strong for a while for those cars in particular (insert all of our "should have bought that one for $18,000 back in 2002" stories) and have softened, and it always makes me nervous to see big price fluctuations.
-
What a coincidence that a lot of these bright colors date back to the 70s. I wonder what could explain it....
-
1
-
-
Here's an example of a slightly "out there" color that is also correct and original to the car -- my 1949 Cadillac in chartreuse. In 1949, Cadillac only offered the color on convertibles, and after a few months they dropped the color offering because few people wanted a color that bright. I think it looks really cool, and my sense is that the market actually gives the chartreuse convertibles a slight boost if they are original to the car (color code 21). And if not, at least it's not a demerit. But I get a lot of questions about the color, and it's not to everyone's taste.
ETA: More on the chartreuse '49s here.
-
5
-
-
Matt Harwood is the expert on this, but I'll offer my non-expert opinion: In my experience, the color of a car does have a significant effect on market value -- and the current market favors original or at least period-popular colors for prewar cars. It seems to me that folks buying 80+ year old cars mostly are the type that favors originality. To that crowd, a strange or garish color scheme is like putting a Chevy small-block in a Packard. I wasn't in the hobby then, but I suspect it was a little bit different 40 or 50 years ago, when prewar cars were only 30 or 40 years old and restoration standards weren't what they are now: An old car may have just been a fun curiosity, so a crazy color was putting your own stamp of individuality on things. But these days it seems like originality reigns. Given the hassle and cost of painting a car over, market values suffer from oddball choices.
-
1
-
-
Matt, this is a great answer -- thanks for it. You're an excellent writer, by the way: Have you ever thought about having a column in Hemmings, or some similar publication, about the classic car hobby and the market in buying and selling cars? I would think you can write a column very quickly and it would reach a broader audience than the AACA Forum. I write for a living, so I don't give out that kind of praise easily. But you would be an excellent magazine columnist in one of the hobby's prominent magazines.
UPDATE: I now see that John_S_in_Penna had the same idea. Consider his idea seconded!
-
4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
That's interesting because I [usually] have the opposite experience. I try to avoid cars under $20,000 unless the margins are really good. The problem is that they cost just as much for me to market, and the customers for "inexpensive" cars usually use up a disproportionate amount of my time. Like 10 times as much (no joke).
Inexpensive car buyers have 20 questions on the first phone call, most of which are answered in the description but he didn't bother reading it. He thinks this is some kind of scam because he found the car online, so he's very skeptical and would never, ever send anyone any money without seeing things in person. So I first have to convince him that I'm not a crook. Then he'll ask for a bunch of photos in addition to the 80-100 photos already posted online that I have to go take (which means pulling the car out of its spot). Then he'll call back and ask a bunch more questions that his buddy thought of that he should ask or about things he read on the internet. If it's a car newer than 1985 or so, he'll ask me to buy him a CarFAX ($30 a shot), which obviously we don't do as a matter of course because most of our cars are older than that. Then he'll hire an inspector (which is always OK) and that guy will use up a bunch of time even though he doesn't know what he's looking at. Then he'll get a report from the inspector and will call again to ask questions about the things the inspector found. Then he'll decide he needs to see it himself (which is always OK). He'll come see it, he'll want it on the lift, and he'll want a test drive, so we tear the shop apart for him and everybody stops what they're doing to help move cars around. After the test drive he'll look around the showroom while he thinks about it. Then he'll go out to lunch with his wife to ask permission. Then he'll come back and say that his wife won't let him buy it at my asking price, would I take sixty cents on the dollar, CASH MONEY? We haggle some more, he goes to talk it over with his wife again, and eventually we come to an agreement. Then we start to do the paperwork and he realizes that he has to pay for the thing and thinks he's going to drive it home after giving us a check, which obviously isn't happening. So we spend a bunch of time trying to talk him out of driving it home that moment and to let us set up shipping for him, but he's convinced himself that a long drive in an unfamiliar old car is the smartest, cheapest way to get it home. So now he needs to go to the bank. When he gets back from the bank, we sit around for a few hours entertaining this guy and his wife in our offices while the wire is processed. He also decides that he needs the title right then and there because he had a bad experience once and seeing my $5 million inventory doesn't do much to convince him that it's not all just an elaborate ruse to steal $12,000 from him. Once the wire hits, we have to get the car ready for a cross-country jaunt (which also means my mechanics have to drop everything else they're doing on other cars). While the guys are doing that, we drive 30 minutes and two towns over to the title office with him to do the title work on the spot instead of doing it online and mailing it to him a few days later. We also have to get him a temporary tag while we're there, so that's another line to wait in. When we get back to the shop, he'll wander over to the T-shirt rack and ask for a few free T-shirts ("You know, so I can advertise your business."). Eventually he drives away after a 6-hour ordeal and everyone is happy(ish).
More expensive cars? They call, they ask a few questions to verify it's what I say it is, they ask me to arrange shipping, they ask me to send them an invoice for the whole shebang, then they pay for everything with a wire transfer the next day. A few days later we put the car in a truck and it leaves. A week later, the title has been processed digitally and we overnight it to the new owner.
/What was this thread about again?
Matt, how much of your experience reflects the difference between inexperienced buyers and experienced buyers? Your example of an inexpensive car buyer sounds like someone who doesn't know what he is doing, perhaps because he hasn't done this before. Your more expensive buyer sounds like someone who isn't in his first rodeo. I know that when I was looking for my first classic car, with about $10,000 to spend, I did or planned to do all sorts of exceedingly dumb things. For example, I once went to pick up a 60-year-old car that I had never inspected and that had 30 year old tires that I was planning to drive 150 miles at highway speeds back home. Fortunately I chickened out at the last minute and decided not to buy the car. Chickening out at the last minute was no doubt an inexperienced buyer thing to do, but it's something I'm glad I did because at least I lived to tell the tale. With more experience, and often with more resources saved up over time, comes a less crazy buying process. Or at least that's a possible explanation: Curious about your thoughts.
-
6 hours ago, nick8086 said:
My two cents.. all the old car cost money.. Just do not tell the wife how much....
I just bought one bolt off ebay for 65.00..
That reminds me of when I was at Hershey a few years ago with my wife. I bought a little plastic knob for my Packard. And I showed it to my wife, who said:
WIFE: I'll bet that little plastic knob was $50.
ME: That would be something, wouldn't it.
WIFE: Was I close?
ME: 50, exactly, dear.
-
4
-
-
On 4/5/2019 at 8:04 AM, 39BuickEight said:
Based on my 10 years of experience as an automobile adjuster with a major brand carrier, and dealing with other major carriers in liability claims, their agents are quick to sell the product (because they are salespeople), but when it come to claims, they are extremely lacking in the knowledge/ability in how to properly deal with a damaged antique/classic/collectible vehicle. It doesn’t matter if the premium is lower, if, when you need them, they don’t know how to handle your claim. That’s where the specialty insurers excel.
I still work for a major carrier, and use them for my house and daily drivers, but I have Hagerty on my collectibles.
I have Hagerty on my antique cars, and I'm a fan. I had an issue around a decade ago when a car of mine caught fire on the road, and they were great: They paid the shop in full with no questions.
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, WQ59B said:
The comparison was quarter-to-quarter sales drop in the U.S., against a year-to-year sales drop in the U.S. of a brand (that would fail within weeks of that 2nd 'Y' total). It's legitimate, regardless of what may or may not be sold in other markets. Will Tesla survive? Who knows?? Frankly, by the numbers; the company should already be stone cold dead. The losses are catastrophically high- it will take YEARS to erase them even if every quarter was profitable from now on. Time will tell.
Although this was a 31% quarter-to-quarter drop, it's perhaps worth noting that it was after a massive increase in earlier quarter-to-quarter sales:
I assume that some of those high Q3 and Q4 2018 numbers led to the lower Q1 2019 numbers given the decreasing tax break: I gather that some of those wanting a Tesla were trying to buy one before the tax break dropped by $3750 starting in Q1 2019. Or at least that's my understanding.
-
I wrote about discovering a pre-1938 matchbox folded into my door here last fall.
-
1
-
-
Get a car cover, and put the cover on when you park it. It will blend into the background and people won't pay attention to it.
If it's a big car, park away from other cars so you'll have room to get in and out.
I agree to get a battery cut off switch and turn the switch off, both to avoid draining the battery while you're away (if you left something on or there is a short somewhere) and to keep people from driving away with it.
-
7 hours ago, edinmass said:
.the top dealers and brokers in the world will all tell you 95 percent of all cars are now an either stable or depreciating asset.........95 percent. The top stuff is still on fire and going strong, but trickle down isn't coming to 98 percent of the market like the pony cars have done to the other GT cars. Enjoy the hobby, show......tour.......vacation......forget values or you won't enjoy yourself. Money spent on cars is like money spent at the casino......it makes NO sense, unless you're are being entertained. I have made and spent countless dollars on cars..........seven figures for certain......... in the end between the gains and losses I figure I am about even. But in the world of fun, pleasure, excitement, travel, friends, people, and all the other thing that come along for the ride........"I'm wealthier than Bill Gates" and the rest of the DOT COM billionaires............because I am SURE I am having more fun than they are. Get in your car and drive......or show.......or whatever floats your boat. None of us are getting out of this world alive, and the only cure is to have a good time while we are here.........I know I am! 👍
Ed, great comment. I just grabbed my keys and am leaving to take an old car out for a ride.
-
Interesting to see that the '39 Twelve described above, which had an auction estimate of $200-$250K but went for $106K, is now being offered by a dealer with an asking price of $200K. From what I understand, Dave Mitchell did the engine, and that front chrome is correct to the car, making that $106K a screaming deal that a dealer is benefiting from.
https://www.schmitt.com/inventory/1939-packard-twelve-convertible-sedan/
-
Pretty cool, I think.
-
2
-
-
7 minutes ago, maok said:
WoW!!! This will rock the industry.
Shows alot of confidence in their product.
Yes, so much for "it loses 20% of its value when you drive it off the lot." Of course, there's also now no lot.
-
9 hours ago, charlier said:
Maybe it is just me, but I would NEVER buy a new vehicle without seeing it in person and taking a test drive. How could one do this if it is sold online-only?
As I understand the new policy, you have a week or 1,000 miles to decide if you want the car. If you drive it for a few days and decide you don't like it, you can return it and get a full refund. From the Tesla blog:
You can now buy a Tesla in North America via your phone in about 1 minute, and that capability will soon be extended worldwide. We are also making it much easier to try out and return a Tesla, so that a test drive prior to purchase isn’t needed. You can now return a car within 7 days or 1,000 miles for a full refund. Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free.
-
I think describing a car as "rare" is about as helpful as describing it as "great" or "restored." Each word hints at a set of ideas, but it can mean almost anything under the circumstances.
-
3
-
-
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:
Notice that I did not say India and China are examples of a Capitalist society. However the wealth that some individuals can attain due to the conditions in those countries strikes me as something many if not most ardent capitalists desire. Why else would the individuals seen by most to be emblematic of successful capitalism accumulate personal fortunes many times a figure an individual person could conceivably make use of. At what point does capitalism as a reasonably fair system degenerate into a grab for spoils?
Definitely capitalism as a economic theory has many things to recommend it. Especially when coupled with a democratic political system. But the same can be said of a limited socialist system, Canada 20 years ago, Scandinavian country's and no doubt a few others .
Perhaps I misjudge successful capitalists , however it seems on the surface at least that the yardstick of todays interpretation of capitalist success is graduated in dollar signs. And the thought of a rising tide lifting all boats seems to be getting lost.
Greg in Canada
I find that most people want to be rich, whether or not they are capitalists, and rich people seem to want to be superrich, again, whether or nor they are capitalists.
-
1
-
-
I know the owner of this car well, and I knew his dad, too. Both very active and well known in local Packard circles. Absolutely honest, know their stuff, and love their Packards.
-
I live near this car. If there are forum "regulars" who want me to take a look at it for them, I'd be able to do that near the end of the week. Just PM me.
-
I though this was interesting. If Tesla is a stock scam, it's a stock scam that sure is selling a lot of cars.
This chart is interesting, too.
Granted, I assume these figures are somewhat impacted by the declining tax credit, which I believe was cut $3,750 if delivery was made before 1/1/19. Still, pretty interesting numbers.
ETA: I'm not surprised by these numbers based on the cars I see. I live in an expensive area of Southern California (is there any other kind? rim shot), and Tesla Model 3s are everywhere. Go for a ten minute drive around town and you'll expect to see at least five of them.
-
2
-
Is hobby interest in pre-WWII cars Dying?
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)
I've sold two cars that are somewhat similar to the one that is being offered here -- both late 30s or early 40s convertible non-CCCA cars. What worked for me:
(1) posting on the Internet a very large number of high resolution pictures of every aspect of the car,
(2) giving a complete history of the car, including who owned it, what work has been done, how much it has been driven, recent repairs, recent awards, etc.,
(3) making sure my ad was seen pretty widely, such as on Hemmings, club websites, etc. and
(4) including a realistic price that made clear I was serious about selling, and that didn't require potential buyers to "make an offer" way below the offering price just to get into the realistic price range.
The first of the cars sold in about 3-4 weeks to the first person who came out to see it, who had seen the ad in a club publication. The second of the cars also sold in about 3-4 weeks, this time at my full asking price sight unseen (which certainly surprised me, but I was happy to take). In both cases I sold the car for about 5%-10% more than I paid for them myself about 4 years earlier.