[Vintage dealership buildings that are still around]

7 hours ago, John S. said:

 I believe, if I am not mistaken, this was an exhibit at the Chicago Worlds Fair. I remember a post card issued  of an evening shot of  the display all lit up. John

 

Yes, good memory!  http://neplains.com/1933-chicago-worlds-fair---nash-cars---century-of-progress.aspx

 

["1927 Packard Found in Abandoned Philadelphia Factory Sitting for Over 40 Years"]

This is pretty cool.

 

 

[Fantom Works]

6 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I think Fantomworks will be glad to have the cameras gone. I bet that took a lot of time away from doing their real work.

 

Also, the thing that annoyed me about that show was that the guy would bring his car in and say his budget was, say, $10,000. Then they get in there and find all kinds of problems and do a huge amount of work. At the end, the guy comes in and Dan gives him the bill: "Well, I know you only wanted the hood repainted and a new bumper installed, but we found some extra rust and the suspension was bent and the engine threw a rod and the whole interior was wrong. You said your budget was $10,000 but we have 9000 hours in the project and about $12,000 worth of parts, so here's the actual bill."

 

**hands customer bill for $68,000**

 

Customer: "Well, gosh, that's a lot of money. I didn't expect all that and it's a lot more than I wanted to spend. But I really like the car, so it's OK."

 

I have just one question: Is this endless line of suckers walking into everyone else's restoration shop, too?

 

I just appreciated that they told us the bill.  I always liked watching that show with my wife to help me by comparison.   "See, honey, our latest repair bill wasn't all that bad!!"

[Historic Packard Plant bridge collapses in Detroit]

Glad they realized the problem and cleared the area before it happened.  Interesting context in the video.

 

 

[30s Packards at the Scottsdale auctions]

Interesting data points: 

 

1934 Packard Twelve 1108 Touring Coachwork by Rollston

Estimate: $300,000 - $350,000

Without Reserve SOLD $201,600

 

1939 Packard Twelve 1708 Convertible Sedan

Estimate: $200,000 - $250,000

Without Reserve SOLD $106,400

 

1934 Packard Super Eight Phaeton

Estimate: $180,000 – $240,000

Without Reserve SOLD For $156,800

 

1937 Packard Super Eight Coupe

Estimate: $100,000 – $125,000

Without Reserve SOLD For $106,400

1934 Packard Eight 2/4-Passenger Coupe

Estimate: $100,000 – $125,000 

Without Reserve SOLD For $100,800

 

Maybe just some screaming deals, or maybe the market softening, or maybe some of these cars weren't what they seemed, at least for the first few cars on this list. 

 

Curious if anyone has insight.

[Mark Clayton on 1922 and 1932 Packards]

Some of you may have seen these, but Mark Clayton's views on the 1922 Packard 116s and 1932 Packard Standard Eights is pretty interesting.  

 

 

 

 

[Vintage dealership buildings that are still around]

8 hours ago, TG57Roadmaster said:

 

The Anderson-Overland Company was built in 1924-25 in Anderson, SC, as an Overland dealership and was later Olds-Cadillac, Buick,

AMC, then Datsun/British-Leyland. Designed by local architects Casey and Fant, in 1981 it became storage for a car repair shop,

and fortunately its original tri-fold showroom  doors survive for the building's future restoration.

There are mezzanine level offices, with access by a ramp from the showroom, street level to an unfettered upstairs space with

parking for about a dozen cars. Three of us AACA'ers use the building for car storage and light repairs.

 

 

What a cool place to store cars!   That's amazing.  And I love the '60 Buick and '48 Cadillac -- two beautifully designed cars. (The Pontiac is nice, too.)

[The next generation and keeping it in the family]

24 minutes ago, TerryB said:

There is no guarantee that childhood interests equal adult life interests.  Some will continue, others won’t want to be bothered.  Enjoy the times when your interests and theirs overlap. 

 

Agreed. It's wonderful when our passions are passed on to the next generation.  It makes us feel like we're passing on a bit of ourselves.   But I also agree that every generation needs to find its own passions and interests, and to make its own choices about what they love.   Enjoy the overlapping times, but also celebrate each new generation's ability to pursue what it loves.

["Millennials Invade Classic Car Market"]

Going back to this topic, Hagerty's new "Insider" magazine -- seems sort of like a Keith Martin's Sports Car Market, but based heavily on Hagerty's own database of trends -- has this interesting piece of information:

 

• "While Baby Boomers tend to have cars that are on average 14 years younger than they are, millennials tend to own cars that are on average seven years older than them. Among Hagerty policy-holders, the median model year for Pre-Boomers is 1964, Boomers 1968, Gen-X 1970, and millennials 1970."

 

According to the story, the kinds of collectors cars that the young and the old tend to own  -- at least among those insured by Hagerty -- aren't all that different.  One exception is that the pre-Boomers born before 1946 are much more into 1930s and 1940s cars, and much less into 1970s and later cars, than later generations.

[Guys, I'd like your ideas and feedback on opening a collector car facility]

A difficulty with asking us here at the AACA forum is that any sort of business like this would have to be highly localized.  You'd presumably need to find a place with lots of car collectors already, where those car collectors have money to spend, and yet where there aren't similar services already.   Then you'd have to find out what *that* group wants, and design the business around them. 

 

With that said, I  would guess that the most useful kind of place in a boating area is probably a combined storage and repair shop.  Boat people often have extra income, and those who have boats and collector cars together probably need seasonal storage and someone to hire to work on their cars. The rest of the services, like hosting a cruise night or cars & coffee, can be used as ways of advertising.  But it's a tough business, as really you're running a classic car repair shop; a much-needed service, but not an easy business.

[Remarks on Buick super 1949 convertible]

Lovely car!  I have a similar '49 convertible -- a Cadillac, instead of a Buick, but similar.  I agree with what others stated that joining the Buick club would be useful to learn about where you can access parts.  But you can also find a lot of parts just by searching on the Internet: Many parts sources have an online presence and you can order parts and have them shipped from them.  Just searching around, these seem like possibilities: 

 

https://classicbuicks.com/

https://www.bellbuickparts.com/

https://bobsautomobilia.com/

https://www.buickfarm.com/

 

[Vintage dealership buildings that are still around]

48 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

 

CHuDWah, I'm pretty sure the fence is just temporary as the building is currently vacant. This is a pretty decent part of town so it's probably just a precaution.

I wish I had an idea for the building that would pay. I'd rent that space in a heartbeat.

 

Yes, and the street light has been around for a while: You can see it in the 1956 picture when it was Noll Auto.

[Vintage dealership buildings that are still around]

3 hours ago, Pancho's ride said:

In Pasadena you can also find the old Don Lee Cadillac and La Salle dealership as well as the the old Nash dealership.  

 

 

 

I was wondering about that building!  I happened to drive by it last night, too, and I wondered about what it originally had been.  Fascinating to know that was Don Lee's Pasadena Cadillac/LaSalle dealership.  I see from this site that there's another cool picture from inside the service area in 1932. 

 

[Then and now: where did these prewar cars go?]

57 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

This gem turned up on the HAMB today, can some Packard people tell us about it? Bob 

 

 

 

Milan auto show, showing the 1933 Packards -- the so-called 10th Series, introduced (if I recall correctly) in January 1933.

[Vintage dealership buildings that are still around]

I was thinking tonight about vintage dealership buildings that still exist, either still being used as car dealerships or preserved but being used for other purposes.

 

The thought was inspired by driving past the Howard Motor Company building, on Colorado Boulevard in Pasadena, California, right on the Rose Bowl Parade route this morning.  The building was built in 1927 as a Buick dealership.  In1938, it became a Packard dealership until the late 50s. In 1996 it was added to the National Register of Historic Places.  It's now vacant, and lights were on inside letting me see some details inside. Here's an outside shot, with apologies for all the Rose-Bowl-Parade-route trash on the ground: 

 

 

And here's a shot of the interior from the front door area:

 

 

And a picture up close of the entrance: 

 

 

Finally, here's a picture of the building from when it was operating as a Packard dealership, Noll Auto, in 1956:  

 

 

 

Such a cool building, although presumably less practical today than it was in 1927.  

 

It occurs to me that others may have their own favorites of old dealership buildings that are still around, either still being used as car dealerships or just in something close to their original form.  If so, please feel free to post pictures!  And my apologies if others have hosted similar threads; I looked but didn't find anything similar.

[The Best Investments of 2018? Art, Wine and Cars]

If you want to know how they calculate HAGI's Top Index,  good luck.  They say that it's based on an index of "exceptional historic automobiles," and that they estimate market price changes based on their "private contacts, marque specialists, dealers and auction results." They also tell you that Porsche and Ferrari values are a substantial part of the index.  But they don't disclose how they calculate the numbers, or what cars are considered and in what proportion.  Ironically, they claim that their index is a way to make the classic car market more "transparent."  If you want to know more, you have to become a member to get their newsletter.  I'm assuming they don't give away memberships for free.

[Then and now: where did these prewar cars go?]

On 12/29/2018 at 11:48 AM, edinmass said:

At the REVS institute in Naples Florida. 

 

 

Love that car, especially in a driver condition that makes you want to jump in and go for a long ride.  Some pictures I took of it when I visited.

 

 

[Tupelo Museum Closing, Selling Off Cars]

I drove a Cord for the first time this summer.  I think they're one of the most beautiful cars ever built, and I've loved them since I was 10 years old.  But it seemed fitting for their tricky reputation that we had to cut the drive short because the transmission became stuck in reverse when i tried to turn the car around.  Maybe someday, but not that particular car. 

[Tupelo Museum Closing, Selling Off Cars]

9 hours ago, AHa said:

I'd like to tap into this wealth of Duesy knowledge/history. My great uncle was a chauffeur for a man named Fownes from Pennsylvania. This man had a house in Pinehurst and wintered there. He was a big golf nut and designed a course in Pennsylvania. He had two Duesenburgs, in one he installed a speedometer in the back seat compartment so he could monitor my uncle's speed. I've always wanted to track down the cars my uncle drove but the Museum has no knowledge of a Fownes owning a Duesenburg. The golf course/club still exists in Pennsylvania and all the family pictures belong to the club but I haven't been successful at getting anyone to do any research. Do any of you guys know of a Duesy owned by a Mr Fownes of Pennsylvania?

 

As for me, I'd take the car just as it is, just to own a Duesy.

 

Googling around suggests it was Henry C. Fownes, profiled here: 

http://www.usga.org/articles/2010/05/fownesthe-oakmont-architect-2147486616.html  

 

There's a discussion of Fownes and his Duesenberg in the article excerpted below.  Maybe contact the author of that article and ask for the source of the Duesenberg story about Fownes?  The author might be able to put you in touch with someone who knows about the cars and what happened to them.

https://issuu.com/pinehurstlivingmagazine/docs/may-june_web_pdf_reduced_size

 

[Duesenberg]

I remember when that Model A came up at auction a few years ago.  Really cool car.   As featured, I believe, in Fred Roe's Duesenberg book:

 

[Tupelo Museum Closing, Selling Off Cars]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

Matching body, engine chassis,  not shown in years if ever,  unique body,  etc.  It will do better than you would think.

 

It will do 100k less than this one:

 

http://www.worldwide-auctioneers.com/auctions/details.cfm?vehicleID=13&id=66

 

Really interesting discussion.  This may be an unanswerable question, but does anyone have any thoughts on what kind of collector is likely to be most interested in this kind of car?  Wondering if there are collectors with several Duesenbergs who might want one more to add to their collection. Or maybe there are collectors who always wanted a Duesenberg who are likely to see this as a relatively inexpensive way in?    I have no idea what the Duesenberg market is like for that kind of car, but it's interesting just to ponder (especially because mere pondering is free). 

[Tupelo Museum Closing, Selling Off Cars]

I agree it's better to have the cars well-maintained and brought out to shows and tours than in a museum.  As I see it, the order of preferred antique automotive usage goes like this, from worst (at the top) to best (at the bottom): 

 

1) Poorly maintained and in a collection no one sees.

2) Poorly maintained and in a museum some can see.

3) Well maintained and in a museum or collection some can see.

4) Well maintained and regularly driven.

5) In my garage

 

 

["Millennials Invade Classic Car Market"]

6 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Notice how so many of our forum-goers

pigeon-hole themselves into the categories that

the marketers have set!  Marketers MAKE UP a label

and people are quick to call themselves X, Y, Millennials.

 

Folks, you go far above and beyond those labels!

Does anyone think that the Generation X musician-artist

in Soho in New York City;  the family farmer in Nebraska;

the studied Certified Public Accountant in a Chicago suburb;

and the man away for a week working in the oilfields of Alaska,

are all similar because they were born in a certain range of years?

 

This may be straying a bit the subject of the thread, but I'll bite: I think the answer is often "yes."  Different generations were shaped by different experiences, world events, and technologies at different stages of their lives, and often that does create a shared outlook for many.  It creates a useful heuristic, at least.  And I think that is the conclusion not just of "marketers,"  but of professional demographers and researchers who conduct studies to identify changing attitudes across different generations.  See, for example, The National Science Foundation's Longitudinal Study of American Youth and its journal, the "Generation X Report."    

  

["Millennials Invade Classic Car Market"]

I'm Generation X, too, and I have two pre-war Classics.   Just as Matt suggested, there's a family connection: My grandfather owned the Packard I now have, and I fell in love with 30s cars from the time I was 7 or 8 and played with that Packard in my grandfather's garage.    One of my favorite books when I was growing up was Cars of the 30s, by the editors of Consumer Guide.  I used to spend countless hours combing through that book, learning about each make and model, and comparing the pictures of model years.  I still have that very worn book, too.

 

I've found that the folks at cruise nights and local car shows are usually really enthusiastic about new people showing up with interesting new cars, of any era, Classics included.  Like Buick64C, I have no reason to think that bringing these cars to shows have helped persuade anyone to own one (at least yet).. But car people are car people. If you bring a car and create a memory that a car is really cool, you never know what seed you're planting.

 

[Lecture: "The Art of Automobile Restoration with Alan Taylor"]

Neat lecture by restorer Alan Taylor on what it takes to restore high-end cars for Pebble Beach and the like.  He focuses mostly on a particular Bugatti that his shop did and brought to Pebble. Interesting content, and helpful pictures/video.  Sure, Edinmass knows all this.  But I learned a lot.