carbking
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Posts posted by carbking
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m-mman - I think this one may be a sticky valve, or the distibutor not advancing; but the OP feels it is fuel. If the carburetor is at fault, it is probably the metering rod adjustment; although the float is a possibility.
Jon
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Did you check the metering rod adjustment when you rebuilt the carb? Other than that, not much that can go wrong.
Jon
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Are your carbs Carters or Strombergs?
Jon
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Going through my "patterns" stuff, and downsizing. This is stuff I thought some day I might reproduce, so kept as samples. Will not be reproducing these items, so offering for sale. These are new old replacement stock. Have only a very few of each.
Adjustable main metering jets for many updraft Stromberg carburetors - $75. each plus postage. (See application list below)
Adjustable main metering jets for many early downdraft single barrel Strombergs - $75. each plus postage. (See application list below).
Adjustable main metering jets for early and mid-1930's Stromberg EE-1 two-barrels (Auburn, Buick, Oldsmobile, Studebaker) - $125./pair.
VISA/MasterCard
573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time).
Jon
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Wayne - Stromberg released a replacement carburetor specifically for the 6-45 Paige.
It is a URO-1.
While there are a number of URO-1 carbs, any may be recalibrated. The carb is cast iron, so not as "pretty" as a brass one, but there is probably no better, or even as good, a carburetor that you could put on the engine for all purposes except national shows or a museum.
I have never seen an aluminum Johnson model H; but I have seen a couple of larger Johnson model R's that were aluminum.
Jon
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I think this one is a Model R, rather than the Model H.
The only documentation I have ever found on these are a few of the 5x8 individual brochures.
The H's and R's were used on a number of vehicles in the 1920's; but every one I have ever seen, like this one, was suffering from "pot metal decay", and usable only for patterns.
The Johnsons used by Cadillac were aluminum, not zinc alloy..
Jon
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I would suggest temporarily installing a fuel pressure gauge right at the carburetor.
If the fuel pump is only 2 years old, AND came from a FLAPS, the pressure is suspect. A test with the gauge will tell us if this is a problem.
If the fuel pressure to the carburetor is too high, the fuel valve/float will not shut off the pressure. If the pressure is only a little too high, then it is possible that the fuel level will rise higher on the float, increasing the effective buoyancy of the float, allowing the float to shut off the fuel, but at a higher bowl fuel level than normal.
If the above is true, fuel would drip from the venturii when attempting to start; and if the engine doesn't start, the fuel that dripped from the venturii down on the closed throttle plates would exit the carburetor by the down-hill side of the the throttle shaft.
As for fuel exiting the engine when the engine dies, old-tank in post 2 is probably correct, along with too much fuel pressure.
Fuel pressure test is the first step. MAXIMUM allowable fuel pressure at the pump with real gasoline is 6 1/2 psi. That will be slightly less with ethanol. Guessing at maybe 5 1/2 psi at the carburetor would be the maximum.
Jon
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Mechanical or electric fuel pump?
If mechanical, is it new?
Jon
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I told you I would check to see what I had.
I had to wait until my son came over to lift the boxes in which these are stored. Lifting 200 pound boxes are no longer in my exercise program.
I do not have individual parts, other than:
I have a complete ST5 core. Throttle and choke shafts are snug, but move freely. Upper casting is NOT cracked, as so many are; and the banjo fitting and bolt are present.
I did not open to test the float, but one is present, as you can hear it move if you invert the carb.
Threw it in the ultrasonic cleaner to do a rough cleaning for shipping.
573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time - except holidays, and tomorrow the 9th is a holiday).
Jon
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For any intended use of the car other than museum or show; the pictured carburetor is a huge upgrade from the original.
If the intended use is either of the above, add a tidy sum to find and restore an original.
Jon
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Another question.
Have you drained the tank, and refilled with fresh fuel.
My low compression John Deere will not start on 2 year old fuel unless the engine is started on starting fluid, run at high idle with half choke until hot.
Jon
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D6A2, D6C1, D6C2 cores
D6C2 rebuilt
573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time).
Jon
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OK - you have done a different test to do part of what the starting fluid would test.
The cylinders will fire, so the ignition system is working.
So either fuel is not getting to the carburetor (test by unscrewing the drain plug on the bottom)
OR
Fuel is not being sucked into the cylinders (are you using full choke for starting?)
Hold off on the starting fluid for now.
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The suggested initial setting of the adjustable main metering jet is 2 and 1/2 turns from the valve being lightly seated.
This will always get the engine started, if the engine has no other problems.
The adjustment range is 0 to 5 full turns.
An easy way to determine if the carburetor is at fault is to have a helper crank the engine while you spray starting fluid into the air intake. If used, starting fluid should be sprayed WHILE the engine is being cranked. 1 to 2 second spray is sufficient. If the engine starts, then time to check out the carb. If the engine will not fire, other issues exist.
Testing is cheaper than guessing.
Jon.
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Think I will take a break before starting the next project.
Kingston and Stromberg are finished as to the digitizing. Still need to do a wee bit of organization on the Stromberg material. I am not sure it is possible to organize the Kingston stuff.
Kingston digitationwas fairly easy, only 2200 documents.
Stromberg was 49,000 documents.
Still have 3 more projects that I will probably not live long enough to complete! Averaged about 2500 Stromberg documents per year. The Carter stuff is significantly more time-consuming.
I have the existing Carter drawing archives which on on aperature cards. The title to the card (drawing) is punched in the aperature card, so the aperature cards must be processed individually. About 8000 aperature cards.
I have the complete Carter Carburetor School slide library - 2700 slides. Again, the slide number is printed on the cardboard holder, not physically on the visible slide.
And the final project has nothing to do with carburetors - this would be the GM super 9 filmloops (I only have Pontiac) from 1972~1985 that were used in the showroom to allow the customer to learn more about a new car the customer was interested in purchasing. I finally found (and purchased) the special equipment to play the super 8 filmloops and their optical soundtracks; but the filmloop cartridges must be disassembled and the tape rolled off on the normal movie reel before they can be converted. There are about 250 of these.
I do this in the evening at home; much more interesting than most of the TV programming currently available.
Jon
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About 5 minutes ago, I finished my project of digitizing the existing prints, slides, drawings, catalog pages, manuals, etc. of the Stromberg Carburetor Company.
This has been a 19 year project.
A complete digital copy will be eventually (after I do a better job of organization) to the AACA library to replace the partial copy I sent about a year ago.
Jon
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Stromberg did not specify this measurement on any of the service documents that I have.
Checking standard torque tables yields 13 INCH-POUNDS (NOT FOOT-POUNDS).
No 6-foot cheater bars are necessary
Jon
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The first thing I would check would be fuel pressure at the carburetor using a fuel pressure gauge.
Stromberg specified a maximum of 3 psi at idle.
Fuel level in the carburetor bowl is basically dependent on three things:
(1) The buoyancy of the float
(2) The diameter of the fuel seat orifice
(3) The incoming fuel pressure
It should be noted that under normal conditions, the float will not be completely covered with fuel. When the float is unable to shut off the fuel flow at normal settings, the fuel level will rise on the float somewhat increasing the float buoyancy.
In fewer words, it MIGHT be that the fuel level is TOO HIGH, but not sufficiently high as to run out of the carburetor. This could cause the carburetor to overfuel the engine at idle.
Thus, test number one would be actual gauge fuel pressure, not an index mark on a fuel pressure regulator (if one is being used).
If the pressure is less than 3 psi (2 1/2 would probably be better with the p/p being sold as gasoline today), then fuel pressure is probably not the culprit. In this case, I would try a phenolic spacer as others have mentioned in this thread.
All of the above is assuming you are using the original Stromberg carburetor. If you unfortunately have the Marvel, the ONLY suggestion I have is replace it with a Stromberg. I have not seen specifications for Marvel fuel pressure, but with the hokey float arrangement Marvel used, I would doubt much about 1 psi would work.
More on electric fuel pumps: Electric fuel pumps and older cars.
One quote from the article: "Thus it is quite possible, if the wrong electric pump is chosen, to have a pump that floods the engine at idle, and has insufficient volume to maintain proper carburetor bowl level at wide open throttle."
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573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time).
Jon
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ECCO - I am sold out of the BB-1 245s carburetors. I do have one of the Strombergs; HOWEVER: as the 245s is a factory suggested replacement, I would suggest a bit of patience; as they do turn up, and go with the 245s.
If you wish to discuss this further, my office phone is 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-5 Mon-Tues central time).
Jon
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The 1928 Chrysler model 52 had a number of different carburetors.
Early production used a Carter type RAJH-0 number 100s which was basically a "tweak" of the 1927 model.
This carb was quickly replaced with Carter type RJH-08 number 112s, which was then replaced with 119s which was then replaced with 125s. All of this occurring in the 1928 model year.
In 1931, the 125s was superseded by the 1931 Plymouth carburetor, Carter type RJH-08 number 210s.
In 1932, the 210s was superseded by Carter type BB-1 number 245s. The Carter type BB-1 is in my top three of updraft carburetor series.
The Tillotson JR series (the "R" stood for replacement) was an extremely inexpensive aftermarket unit, often sold through cut-rate auto supply houses.
You mentioned Zenith. Zenith has made many different carburetors. The one most commonly sold today (because of price) by most vendors (including us) is an agricultural carburetor that has NO power circuit. There are about 12 different with different internal venturii sizes and physical throttle sizes. If the correct one is selected, and modified for the fuel delivery system being used, it will work fairly well in more or less level terrain; but the absence of a power circuit is less than desirable if there are hills to cross. There is also a Chinese knock-off (opinion - should be avoided at any price!) of this version.
Zenith also made a much better version, but they are now obsolete, so finding a new one is quite difficult.
Stromberg also made an excellent aftermarket carb, but like the second Zenith, more expensive than the common Zenith.
The Carter BB-1 number 245s mentioned above is generally in the same price range as the better Zenith. The Carter BB-1, the better Zenith, and the Stromberg are my top 3 updraft aftermarket carburetors. But since the 245s was sold as a factory replacement, this is the one I would suggest if you go aftermarket.
Should you decide to go original, then obviously the last 1928 version, the Carter type 119s would be preferable. A fully restored 119s is going to be significantly more than the 245s or the better Zenith or Stromberg, and other than being prettier, is no where near as good a carburetor.
Jon
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This from the original service brochure:
Replacing Metering Pin
The metering pin should not be tampered with
unless absolutely necessary.
If replacement of this pin should become necessary,
it may be accomplished as follows:
First-Remove the cap nut at the bottom of
the rack and pinion housing. Next, turn pinion
shaft slowly from right to left (facing toward the
carburetor), until the bottom of the metering
pin appears at the bottom of the pinion shaft
housing. Continue to turn the shaft slowly in
the same direction, releasing the connection to
the dash control, if necessary, until the rack to
which the pin is fastened drops out. The palm
of the hand should be held to receive this, as the
parts are very loosely assembled. The pinion
6
shaft should be retained at the exact position
at which the rack is released. Install new metering
pin (the way to do this will be obvious), and
return the rack to its proper mesh with the pinion.
Replace dash attachment (if detached); replace
cap; adjust as per instructions given on opposite
page.
The loose assembling of the metering pin in
the rack is for the purpose of providing for freedom
of movement of the metering pin and in
order that binding in the aspirating tube may be
avoided.And it would still be a good idea to have the documentation.
Jon
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Both the Stromberg LB-1 and Zenith HU-4A were listed as original equipment.
While I have several LB-1 parts carbs, I have never seen an HU-4A.
Checked aftermarket cataloges from years 1920~1922 for replacement listings:
Marvel - nothing
Rayfield - M2V (although why anyone would want to put a Rayfield on any vehicle for which it was not original is beyond me).
Schebler - nothing
Stromberg - only the LB-1, no superseding carburetor.
Zenith - only the HU-4A, no superseding carburetor.
I suppose an adapter could be designed and fabricated to accomodate something else, but if it were mine I would fix the LB-1. Guessing the zinc alloy parts on your LB-1 will need to be fabricated, but once done, the LB-1 would fit, and be correctly calibrated for the engine.
Jon
Carter carburetor parts cabinets (empty)
in Parts For Sale
Posted
For sale:
Empty Carter metal carburetor parts cabinets.
There is one on Ebay for picture purposes: Ebay number 155230579650
This is a two drawer, one large, one small.
My price is $10 per small drawer, $20 per large drawer.
They are stackable.
Have lots more carburetor cabinets.
ABSOLUTELY NO SHIPPING. Pick up in Eldon, Missouri.
These sale prices good through the end of October, or complete sell-out (this I don't expect). We are downsizing, and what is left 1 November will be regretfully recycled.
PM or 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time).
These are great as nostalgia in your garage, or to store nuts, screws, washers, etc.
The drawers do have dividers.
Only condition is you have to buy at least 4 small drawers for each large drawer, if you want more than one large drawer. You can buy as few as one small drawer and one large drawer.
Jon