carbking

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Posts posted by carbking


  1. There are two very knowledgeable and HONEST rebuilders of the brass bowl Carter Chevrolet carburetors on the VCCA forums (vccachat.org).

     

    One goes by the moniker of junkyard-dog (real name Skip Geear), the other by the moniker of Chipper. Don't know if either may be persuaded to do a non-Chevrolet carb or not, but if you can talk either into doing the carb, it will be done right!

     

    Virtually all of the modern parts for the brass bowl carbs are made for Chevrolet, and come from far away. The fact there was no number on Tom's idle tube makes me think this may be the case.

     

    The Carter parts did have numbers, as did the Standard Hygrade aftermarket parts in the day.

     

    Jon.

    • Like 1

  2. First - DON'T send it to me; as I am no longer rebuilding. We are so busy with the manufacture of rebuilding kits, we no longer have time to rebuild. We do have a pretty decent inventory of parts and carbs for sale.

     

    No offense meant, but saying you have a DRT-08 is about as informative as saying you have a 15 inch tire! How wide, how tall, radial, mud and snow, etc., etc., etc.

     

    Carter made 44 different type DRT-08 carburetors. You HAVE to know what you have in able to buy the correct parts. The part number for the tube should be stamped on the plug. Carter NEVER sold the tube or plug separately.

     

    Jon

     


  3. There should be a small orifice that will be located just above the solder once the tube is soldered to the plug.

     

    NO SEALANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    I have posted many times that whenever one reuses an idle tube in a Carter carburetor, one should gently SLIGHTLY expand the upper end by rolling the point of an icepick in the upper end. This is a trick I was taught by the head of the Carter training school decades ago.

     

    The upper casting passage is tapered. The rotation of the tube in the tapered passage will cut a seal. This can be observed in a very slight crimping of the metal at the top of the tube when a used tube is removed.

     

    Hopefully, your new tube is the correct one. Carter made dozens of different tubes with different calibrations. Why wasn't it soldered to the plug?

     

    What is the identification number of both of you fellows carburetors?

     

    Jon.


  4. Penberthy, the maker of the Ball & Ball carburetor, lists it as a DV (double venturii) or 2-barrel. Like most Penberthy carbs, it was a two-stage unit; but still a two-barrel. Oldsmobile used a similar Penberthy on their 8 in the same time period.

     

    I have seen some ads for Oldsmobile that listed fuel injection. Penberthy's full name was "The Penberthy Injector Company".

     

    Jon.


  5. Quote:

    "Excellent photo of the little-known 1917 Peerless Mod. 56 factory Sporting Roadster at the Cleveland Auto Show. $2,250 with wire wheels. 4-barrel carburetor, dual exhaust, 80 HP V-8. Quite the bargain compared to the $3,590 Limousine behind it. if you don't mind the wind in your hair!"

     

    4-barrel carburetor in 1917????? Anyone have a picture?

     

    Jon.


  6. Glad it worked for you.

     

    This is often an issue, and generally incorrectly diagnosed as a bad accelerator pump.

     

    Setting for the "fattest" idle will often cause the throttle plates to be closed too far to allow any air velocity past the idle transfer circuit, effectively disabling this circuit. The idle mixture will then be too rich (compensating for the lack of air velocity) and droplets of fuel will adhere to the runners of the intake manifold (called "puddling").

     

    When the throttle is opened rapidly, there will be sufficient air velocity to sweep these droplets into the cylinders, creating an instantaneous over rich condition. Since the idle transfer circuit was disabled by the lack of air velocity, there is no inertial fuel flowing through the idle transfer circuit, creating an instantaneous lean condition just after the instantaneous rich from the droplets. A hesitation, or bog results. Now, if the bog is not so severe as to stall the engine, the squirt from the accelerator pump arrives, and all is good.

     

    Each carburetor has a "range of idle adjustment" specified by the manufacturer; and generally ignored.

     

    If I had a dollar for every "defective" accelerator pump that was erroneously replaced and the idle adjusted over the last 50 years, I could buy Hawaii, and retire ;)

     

    Jon. 

    • Like 3

  7. Before spending money on a different carb, try checking the timing, and readjusting the idle.

     

    Verify the timing

    Warm the engine

    Increase idle by turning the throttle positioner screw clockwise

    In turn, turn each idle mixture control screw all the way in, and then back out 1 1/4 turns

    Reset the idle using the throttle positioner screw

    Test drive

     

    Cheaper than a carburetor.

     

    Jon.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1

  8. 5 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

     

    When Detroit switched to downdraft carburetors the dealer network service manager requested lots of screws and adjustments for the carburetor. Lots of them right under the owner's nose just tempting him.

     

    I would make sure I got it running on the idle circuit. You can do that by looking down the throat of the carb when it is running and making sure fuel isn't dribbling onto the throttle plates. Close the plates until that stops. If it doesn't stop, address the level issue. If it does stop at least you will be on the idle circuit and there's not much to scrutinizing that.

     

    Wasn't there an initial drill bit size to use as a gauge to preset the throttle plate opening?

     

    Actually, many of the older updraft carbs had significantly more adjustments than the downdraft carbs.

     

    Virtually all updrafts would have:

     

    (A) Idle mixture

    (B) High speed mixture

    (C) Curb idle (RPM)

     

    These are the same basic adjustments found on most downdraft carbs.

     

    Additionally, many updraft carbs had:

     

    (D) throttle opening adjustment (yes, you could limit the opening of the throttle plate, Wouldn't that be useful when your 16-year-old got their license ;) )

    (E) Dash adjustment for the auxiliary air valve.

     

    And many (most?) late 1920's updrafts also had an adjustment on the amount of the accelerator pump shot.

     

    Jon.


  9. Quote: ""I’m not getting a good squirt of fuel when actuating the throttle linkage, I’ll get one squirt and not a good one then bubbling and dribbles 

    when it’s warm and you try to start it, acts like it’s out of gas so fuel is not getting in steadily for sure"

     

    Could be a function of the pump check valves not working correctly, a modern non-leather accelerator pump that has already failed in modern fuel, pump cup leather incorrect size, or "turning upside down". The check valves not working correctly can make the engine run rich all of the time.

     

    Quote: "I found my float level is too low so work to do there"

     

    This is going to make the engine run very lean, if at all.

     

    Quote: "also is there supposed to be a spring under that vacuum piston that controls those metering rods?"

     

    Yes, the spring counter-balances vacuum. When the engine is off, the spring pushes the piston up. When the engine is running, the engine vacuum pulls against the spring, and the two working in conjunction control the height (therefore the metering step) of the metering rods in the jets. The higher the vacuum, the lower the rods are located in the jets (on the thickest part). When the vacuum goes to zero under wide-open-throttle conditions, the spring pushes the linkage and the rods up, and the rods will have the smallest diameter sticking into the jet.

     

    As old-tank mentioned, the factory service manual is a good place to look for understanding. Also, a diagram FOR YOUR SPECIFIC CARBURETOR, from the factory Master Parts Book. If you got a generic set of instructions with a generic diagram in the kit, place it in your parrot cage (I can't spell parakeet) where it belongs! If you still have outdoor plumbing, it can be used in lieu of the Sears & Sawbuck catalogue!

     

    Factory Carter literature is also quite useful, if you can find the page FOR YOUR SPECIFIC CARBURETOR.

     

    Jon.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  10. It may be the carb, it may not be.

     

    As old-tank pointed out in an earlier post; if the engine is idling too fast, the idle screws will do nothing. One can screw them all the way in, or take them out and put them in one's pocket, there will be no change.

     

    Either there is too much fuel, or not enough spark; tests will determine which it is.

     

    Too much fuel could be caused by excessive fuel pump pressure, or the choke not going completely off, or a sunk float, or a missing accelerator pump discharge check valve, or maybe something else.

     

    Too little spark could be caused by the new wires being carbon, or a defective ground through the ground strap, or maybe a defective voltage regulator, or?

     

    Of course, if the consensus is a defective carb, I know a really good source for carb kits ;) I just don't believe the OP has exhausted enough possibilities to rebuild a previously rebuilt carb.

    • Like 2
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    • Haha 1

  11. If the engine is running rich, why the concern about a plugged carburetor passage???

     

    When the engine is totally warm, is the choke butterfly completely open (vertical)?

     

    Fuel pressure at the carburetor?

     

    Cannot tell from the picture: does that carb have the idle vent, and if so, is it functioning correctly?

     

    Condition of grounding strap to engine block, and/or body?

     

    Are the new wires resistor (carbon) or copper wire?

     

    No offense meant, when you did the rebuild, did you get the pump discharge check valve in the correct spot?

     

    It is possible you have multiple issues: (1) the rich idle, and (2) the hard start cold.

     

    Jon.

    • Thanks 1

  12. There seem to be more and more different new brass floats available to the enthusiast/restorer; most of them non-USA produced.

     

    Please understand I am not "throwing rocks" at quality which can be produced outside of the USA, rather that the market seems to be for the cheapest part available, and that is what is imported.

     

    It is well-known among carburetor professionals that the solder used to assemble most of these floats is NOT ethanol-compatible, and leaks WILL develop, often within a few weeks.

     

    If one thinks they need a new brass float, read this excerpt from my website:

     

    "

    BRASS FLOATS

    Many mechanics have been conditioned to ask for a float each time they rebuild a carburetor, due to the reasonable price of modern, mass-produced floats, and the propensity of nitrophyl (foam) floats to absorb gasoline after time. In dealing with older, NON-CURRENT-PRODUCTION brass floats, neither of the above are true, and a mechanic should attempt to 'save' the float if at all possible.

     

    The first step is to clean the float and inspect it for obvious damage. Small dings and dents are quite common, even in unused floats, and occurred when the manufacturer shipped the floats in bulk. Major dents (generally caused by water freezing in the carburetor) are not generally repairable. If one can hear liquid sloshing around inside the float, skip to the next paragraph. If the float looks to be reasonably damage-free, it should be tested. Testing is accomplished by grasping the float arm with a pair of needle-nose pliers, and submerging the float in very hot water. The hot water will pressurize the air inside the float, and a leaky float will blow a stream of bubbles.

     

    If the float should need repair, it is important to understand how the float was originally produced. Virtually all brass float pontoons (the floating part) are composed of two pieces (a few are more) of brass soldered together. The pieces differ in the seam area, as one piece has a male seam and the other a female seam. One float piece will also have a small hole for temperature equilization. This hole will be covered by a small drop of solder, and will be as far from the seam as possible. The manufacturer would solder the two pieces together, allow the float to cool completely, AND THEN close the equilization hole. Soldering MUST be done using a soldering 'iron'. Repair should not be attempted using either a torch, or a soldering gun.

     

    The following procedure works for us (no, we will not repair your float)  :  First, if liquid is present inside the float, find the hole, and remove the liquid by placing the hole down inside the hot water. The pressure will force the liquid from the float. If the float has much liquid, it may be necessary to remove the float from the hot water, allow the float to cool, and repeat the hot water dip. Once the liquid has been removed, and the leak has been marked, open the equilization hole by removing the solder. Solder the leak closed using as little solder as possible. A small piece of tape over the equilization hole will allow the hot water test to be preformed. If there are no leaks, remove the tape, and ALLOW THE FLOAT TO COOL COMPLETELY before closing the equilization hole. A final test, and you have 'saved' a valuable float."

     

    If your float is not repairable, then finding a new old stock original float would be the first option, with the second option being finding a used float. One can always test a brass float with the hot water method described above.

     

    If none of the above is available, then you might try a technique we have suggested to many to replace the older cork float (we have replacements for many, but not all). Find a hobby shop, and acquire a block of balsa wood. Whittle a float from the balsa wood that is the correct shape of the pontoon of your float. Carefully remove the arm from your float and attach it to the new float of balsa wood. Now, the balsa wood MUST be sealed. There are at least two products that I know will work: (1) POR-15, and (2) the dope used to coat the fabric wings of model airplanes that fly. There may be other products as well. 

     

    Jon.

    • Like 5
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  13. David - cannot tell from the picture; is it MV-15 or MV-1B?

     

    The Tillotson factory literature, at least that available to me, references an MV-1A, and an MV-1B, but no MV models other than the two varieties of number 1.

     

    The MV-1B is shown as being original on the Continental W5 engine as used on the 1925 Star automobile. It probably will fit other engines.

     

    Jon.


  14. The carb shown is a Zenith (Bendix was the parent company to Zenith), and is a modern (well post WWII) carb.

     

    Carter shows the original to be an RT-08 (similar to the DRT-08 in the picture by DC8-Dave). Carter specified the RT-08 for 1930, and the DRT-08 for 1931.

     

    Quite a few folks go with the more modern carb because of cost.

     

    Jon.

    • Like 1
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  15. 2 hours ago, 31plymouth said:

    I have a picture of all of the components of a drt08-209S .  ( from the 1928-1933 master parts book)   I will be away until Monday eve.      I will post  a picture..   I have never seen any complete rebuild kits for DRT 08.

    I'm sure Broker len would love to get ahold of one.

     

    What would be your bill-of-material for a complete kit?

     

    What would you pay for it?

     

    How many are you willing to buy?

     

    Carter produced 48 DIFFERENT DRT-08 carbs. BEST CASE would be maybe 15 different kits.

     

    We produce 2 different "clean-out kits" that between the two, service all 48. We sell an average of 2 per year of 1, and 5 per year of the other.

     

    Jon.


  16. 4 hours ago, padgett said:

    BTW the %s in the poll seem meaningless unless less than a quarter of the responders checked " Restoration and maintenance - antique automobiles 25 years and older "

     

    Peter - it appears the percentages reflect the percentage of the number of responses, and therefore total 100 percent (or close, due to rounding). As the guidelines suggested to check all that apply, would not the percentages be more meaningful if they were a reflection of the number of each response to the number of responders, rather than a reflection to the total number of responses?

     

    I personally checked three items. I suspect many others checked multiple items as well.

     

    Jon.

    • Like 1