Pierce66

By '56, it is my understanding that GM had switched over to the so called "acrylic" lacquers. That stuff is still avail. NO question that the modern two-part finishes are superior, in that they offer a far higher gloss, much greater durability, color fastness, etc. The problem is, even the un-trained eye can "spot" the difference in the way light reacts to the acrylic and "old style" nitrocellulose lacquers, compared to the "new stuff". I am assuming that your "collector car" will not spend years outdoors, subject to all the hazzards our "daily drivers" suffer. If that is the case, I'd go for the authentic acrylic lacquer - it will just "look right". Remember, there are THREE essential parts to a good finish..preparation...PREPARATION....and MORE P R E P A R A T I O N ! Dog Spot

Thanks, Chuck - I will call Barry later today. Funny thing is, I was at his house just the other day - didn't think to mention it to him !

regarding "pitting" Welding up cracked blocks is an accepted shop proceedure - problem is - surrounding metal MAY be distored, so a re-bore would be a wise move - which in turn might mean the pistons you have wouldn't be large enough. Remember, you have a LONG STROKE engine, in which piston speeds are MUCH higher, much more severe than in a modern engine, even tho your crankshaft rpm's are lower (assuming you drive at speeds consistant with the year of your car ! ). As for pitting - definitely NOT GOOD. Although not the best shop proceedure, a good honing of a bore that is pitted, can smooth it up enough so that modern piston rings could get you an acceptable "seal" even with a few pits that were too deep to get out with a "cross-hatch" hone. The problem is - you said something about pits on sliding surfaces such as cam followers and the crank-shaft. These are areas that are particularly fussy. There are shops that can handle the grinding, and, if necessary, "hard chroming" of these surfaces. We have already discussed the issue of connecting rod bearings - NO rod bearing will survive, ESPECIALLY given the brutal shock loadings and extreme "sliding speeds" inherent in a long-stroke engine, unless the crank-shaft surface is within spec. You say you want a "driver". Bad news is - there is no "back-yard - easy way" to make a car a reliable driver. You are going to have to "bite the bullet" and do it right. Keep the questions and comments coming. Again, there are no stupid questions...only thing that is stupid..would be to go ahead WITHOUT taking advantage of the experience of others who have been there. In my own case, I do NOT claim to be an "expert" on anything! I am still learning from the exchange of ideas that makes this forum a valuable asset. Dog Spot

Hi B.H.: Not sure what you are driving at in your comments about "bashing". If you were referring to "53 Pack"'s "posts" - yes..some of them have been forceful, perhaps even agressive. But that it just his personal style. I did NOT take personal offense when he called my car a "rolling chicken coop", because I looked beyond a possible interpetation that this was personal, to see what we could all LEARN from another's contribution. In that case, as in the case of so many of '53 Pack's interesting "posts", he is RIGHT - as you go back in time prior to the 1940's,. many cars had bodies of "composite" construction. They are WOOD structures, on which small sheets of hammer-welded steel were NAILED on. Yes...they ARE "chicken coops"...offering little more protection in a roll-over than a well-starched bed sheet ! If you are referring to the "post" I deleted, on the erroneous assumption Craig was some kind of "monitor", be assured there was nothing in that, or any of my "posts" that would "bash" another car buff. I was simply commenting on the problem of assuming ANYTHING Packard would have done after the debacle of their last years, could have saved the Company, and gotten its old buyers back. It might interest you to know that we had a major Packard meet in Orange, California, last year, and were fortunate enough to have as guest speakers, a couple of guys who actually worked on Packard's assembly line in its last years. Be assured we did not "bash" these guys - we are CAR BUFFS, and as such, we LOVE to learn about ANYTHING related to our historically oriented hobby. I hope you dont think that ANYONE at that event would have "bashed" either these guys, or anyone else there for their taste and/or participation in any aspect of the car hobby. At the risk of repeating myself, let me again suggest that we focus on what we are here for - to exchange ideas about our hobby. We just waste the time of the others, if we let ourselves worry about individual personalities. Greetings from the far western portion of Hillis Hills, Long Island, New York...with a great big friendly W O O F !

See - we learn something new practically every time we come in here. Plymouth, eh ? Were all these first power tops vacuum, or were any of them hydraulic. Does anyone know when the first hydraulic power tops came in ? I know some luxury cars had power windows just prior to World War Two - these were hydraulic. First I can recall, was '41 Packards. ? ? ? Dog Spot

That's a pretty big order ! Give us an outline of what areas you need info. on. And tell us something about the car. What's its condition ? Tell us about the head-liner - had it got ONE dome light in the CENTER of the rear, or FOUR dome lights, one on each upper quarter panel just about the shoulder, and two on the lower back of the front seats ? Does it have a chrome switch on the dash that says "ElectroMatic"..? A curious "woof" from Dog Spot

Hi Al: I do not recall any Packard cars with power tops until the early 40's, when they suddenly appeared, first on the expensive cars, then gradually spreading thru out the industry. I can tell you this...putting up the top on a pre 40's Packard...or any open car for that matter...is really a two man job.

Anyone know which Region it is that sells them as a Club Project, or where else I can buy a set ? I need a pair of side mount mirrors that are set up for exposed spare tires ( just got a "new" classic ) ( 28 Rolls Phantom ). Thanks Pete Hartmann (Arizona & California Region(s )

oops..typo error...in my above "post"..I meant to type CLUB movement...(not "cub" movement )....!

Dave - couldnt agree with you more ! Trouble is, so many of us live in big cities, where you have many many miles of congested Interstates to get thru, before you get to an area that is pleasant for old cars. I have always advocated that the cub movement try and plan as many events as possible on just the kind of roads you discussed. Wish more people would listen to us, and DRIVE their cars in such situations. Double WOOF !

Sometimes I almost wish we could go back to the "good old days", when our old cars were worthless, and we were looked upon as nuts for bothering with them. Yes, there was a small emerging hot rod crowd, and the HCCA was already holding small tours. But generally, those who owned old cars could get together, and enjoy them for what they were. One cant help admiring the quality of some of the so called "customs". But I dont know whether to laugh or cry when some guy points to his beautifully done car, and says "how do you like my '32 whatever"...when he is the first to admit that virtually NO part of his beautifully crafted machine was EVER on a REAL old car. When we are young, we know all the answers. As we mature..we know we dont know the answers...but at least we know the questions. At my age, I am not sure I evern know how to frame the questions ! The world has changed from the days a bunch of car buffs with old cars would get out on the roads of our day ( 1950's) and drive to some fun place for a meet. Even the biggest and fastest of the cars from the 20's and 30's are in the way on modern Interstates, and, even with high-speed rear axles, when you GET to someplace...crowds, no place to park, etc. I dont know what the answer is - again, I no longer feel competent to even ask the questions ! I share the mixed emotions of you guys when we arrive at a present day "Classic And Antique Car Show"...and see row after row of "mouse powered" (hot-rodder's name for the so called "small block Chevrolet motor) custom cars that, as I noted above, rarely have much to do with REAL old cars, other than their external physical outlines. ? ? ? ? A puzzled "woof" from Cal Worthington's DOG SPOT

Given the kind of driving most of us do with our collector cars, "third brush" type generators are not likely to be a problem if you go ahead with your plan to leave it the way it is. The problem is that they are UNREGULATED, meaning, YOU control the output by sliding the "third brush" around so its relative position on the armature changes. You can set it for a "low rate of charge", which will avoid "cooking" the battery (and keeing the generator from running hot), but then extensive night driving will leave you with a low battery after a while. OR you can set the third brush up for a high charging rate, which, during day-time driving, without the "load" of the headlights, will eventually over-heat the generator, and "cook" the battery from over-charging. The so called "electronic" conversion of your "cut out" relay should work well for you, bearing in mind all it does, is "close the points" when the generator voltage comes up above battery plate voltage. Sounds like you have run across a competent electrical shop. If you decide to have them change the "third brush" type generator over to a "regulated" type, you would have LESS potential trouble, rather than more. Bottom line - getting COMPETENT help is the best way to insure we can enjoy our collector cars to the fullest. Barrels of congradulatory "woofs" from Dog Spot !

Hi Randall : I read your comments that you havnt "tested the air conditioning yet". Please do not "test" the air conditioning. It is POSSIBLE that the system is salvageable, but NOT if you start it up without doing a complete "purge and re-charge". If you try and start the compressor up with low refrigerant and/or low refrigerant oil, you will ruin the compressor, spread contaminant thru-out the system, and thus add many hundreds if not thousands of dollars to your repair costs. Any air conditioning shop should be able change the compressor's "front seal", then do a "vacuum purge" and either add the correct amount of R-12 and oil compatible with that refrigerant, or, at some additional expense, change out your hoses for R-134 and compressor oil compatible with THAT refrigerant. One HECK of a woof of good luck !

Sorry, Craig - I didn't know we were supposed to submit "posts" to you for approval. I have deleted my post.

Sounds like our boy came to the right shop ! I see no reason not to convert the mechanical "cut out" relay to an electronic one. Hopefully, this shop has an original case to put it into. You might ask him if it would be possible to re-wire it so that the third wire could be run out into a "modern" (meaning post 1935) regulator system - I hear these are now available in solid state units, hopefully smnall enough to be hidden inside the original "cut out" relay case. That would result in enough generator power to keep your battery charged even under night driving conditions, AND would also be easier on the generator, because it would no longer be delivering all the power it is capable of, all the time, nor would you have to worry about "cooking" your battery on long day-light trips ( a common problem back before 1935 / "modern" current and voltage regulation). WOOF

Hi, Jbart: Yes - agree with you as to poured MAIN bearings. That is considered acceptable shop practice amongst knowledgable machinists today, for the obvious reason that mains dont have to handle either the reciprocating loads or the much higher "wiping" speeds the connecting rods are subject to. Yes - even what today we call modest driving, is HORRIBLY fast driving by the standards anb driving conditions the engineers had in mind when these cars were new. The shock loads on the long stroke engines like the Packards this fellow is seeking advice on, even at modest speeds, are FAR greater than could ever be experienced by the modern engine even at triple digit speeds, given the stroke and gearing differences. With a COMBINATION of "insert" type connecting rod bearings, AND a high-speed rear axle and/or over-drive (a number of after-market overdrives are on the market) we old car buffs can have a lot of fun getting our cars out on trips where people can see them, learn about them, and talk about them. Sounds like this fellow who started this "thread" wants advice on how to set up a DRIVER, not a "trailer queen". Good luck to him - we need more guys like that in the hobby! Dog Spot

Metallic paints were available back as far as the early 1930's. There are a number of interesting stories floating around as to how we got metallic paints. The one I believe is accuate, pertains to a car that was painted just in time to be presented at a late 20's or early 30's major auto show. Seems something failed in the pigment grinding machine, and the paint job had tiny metal flakes in it. At first, the people who were to present the car were horrorfied - but, on second glance, decided it was interesting enough to take a chance on displaying it the way it was. The auto show-going public saw the new exotic finish with these metallic particles, liked it, and the paint mfg's were quick to jump on this and exploit it. I have seen some genuine "original" metallic finishes. They seem to be much more subtle, and MUCH finer particles, than is the custom today. No question that the modern two part finishes are vastly superior to paints available in the old days, in every respect - gloss, color retention, durability. BUT - even the un-trained eye, even without understanding the phenomena, will catch the difference between a "real" lacquer or enamel paint job. The light simply behaves differenty when it bounces off the different type finishes. Personaly, I like the more subtle look of the "authentic" finishes. If memory serves, Chrysler Corp. and Ford had ENAMEL on their cars, and GMC and Packard favored lacquer, clear up until the mid 1950's when the so called "acrylics" started showing up. In any event - you know the old story...99.9% of a nice looking paint job..is three elements PREPARATION...PREPARATION...and MORE PREPARATION ! Dog Spot

Hi Clipper ! I disagree with your 'post' - at least, as it applies to TODAY's fuel. I attended OSHKOSH ( the world-famous aviation buff event in Wisconson) last year; had an opportunity to talk to several different fuel company's tech. reps. The news is not good. Both aviation and surface gas as of 2001, has aromics that will not work out with the various "soft" products of previous years. I am particularly annoyed by this, as I have a freshly over-hauled fuel bladder for my aircraft (well, over-hauled and "yellow tagged" in 2001, at a cost of many hundreds of dollars) , which they tell me will fail very quickly in service with the new fuels ( it was actually manufactured in the 1970's). So - the bad news is, things like cork, and many rubber products manufactured prior to the 1980's (when they first started introducing rubber products that can handle the aromics now in our fuels ) are going to fail. I recommend to everyone who thinks he has old rubber and/or cork products in the fuel system, to get em out. Given all the varied sizes of brass carb. floats, and the many different types of fuel level seats and "needles", a car buff shouldn't have too much trouble coming up with something that will enable him to keep his induction system "original" from the outside, but useable with today's gasoline. WOOF !

By the 30's, my understanding is just about everyone was using brass floats, which I strongly recommend. I would bet you can find something in the way of a brass float that would have the right shape to fit. I would also look around and see what carbuerator float valves and seats would work. Which reminds me - what about fuel delivery. Those old vacuum tanks can work very well, until the car gets heat soaked from a long run even at modest speeds, and/or parades and car events. That's when modern fuels, with their much higher vapor pressures, often start vapor locking. This is aggravated by fuel delivery systems that have suction, placing the fuel in the lines under lower pressure. My suggestion is restore the vacuum tank cosmetically, install a modern brass float and float valve and seat ( so it can handle the 4-6 lbs. of modern electric fuel pumps ) and put a modern fuel pump as CLOSE to the gas tank, and as LOW as possible. WOOF from Dog Spot

Charming post. Sure to attract more people interested in discussing automotive matters... Woof

typo error in above post...not "Hills Hills Terrace"...it is HOLLIS HILLS Terrace. AND....if you can guess what HOLLIS HILLS TERRACE was called before it was re-named, a duck will come down and pay you a hundred bucks..! Dog spot

Hi, '53 Pack....O.K..you found me out - I made all this stuff up just to annoy YOU ! So my Sears Riding mower isnt QUITE a Rolls Royce..but it sure looks cool with that Packard duck on the hood...! I converted its transmission over to an Ultramatic to give it that extra "jump" for stop-light drag racing...! P.S. Again, if you are seriously interested in my cars, E mail me and I will send you pictures of my vehicles. Wouldn't a Sears Riding Mower look great with one of those J.C. Whitney "ducks" on the hood ? P.P.S. Call up MAPQUEST on your computer, type in HOLLIS HILLS, QUEENS, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK and look at the corner of Hills Hills Terrace and Richland Ave. If you cant find it, look at the UNION TURNPIKE where it goes under the CLEARVIEW Expressway, just north of the Grand Central Parkway. Now follow the ClearView Expressway NORTH about one block. You'l see RICHLAND Ave. You win a chocolate chip cookie IF you can tell me what you would see if you stood at that intersection and looked north AND I'll even answer more questions about the Rolls ! Dog Spot

Good point ! Dog Spot

Hi BH ! Yes - you are RIGHT. I love "Classic Coke"...especially when I order "Classic Chicken" at my local fast food joint (the owner has a Caprice Classic"...! Dog Spot !

Craig - I disagree with you as to having disagrements - they can be the source of valuable information. PACK 53 seems to be well-informed on some Packard issues that I never heard of until he donated his time to educate us. For example, I found the information he provided about the "straight" or "in line" Packard Twelve to be fascinating. And quite upsetting to my own prejudices..! I'd always thought of Packard's legendary "Vincent" and his research team to be "gods" - I learned from Packard 53 that they too, could go off on silly tangents that made no sense whatsoever. Being a bit suspicious about what is "posted", as Packard 53 most certainly is...is good for all of us. I do wish he'd be a BIT more friendly when he questions what he sees here. Why NOT ask people for further support about their "posts" ? Why not feel good about exchanging ideas ? As for his info. on my Rolls Royce - he apparently has far better knowledge about these cars than I do. And again - his questioning, is what brings out new info. we should all welcome. I was never much interested in pre-war Rolls - always thought of them as quite backward. This one has been an eye-opening experience for me; I obviously have much to learn. Woud love to see copies of the power output info. you have, Pack. 53 - I was always under the impression Rolls never EVER released that kind of info. The book that came with the car, apparently the "originaL, entitled BOOK OF INSTRUCTION FOR THE CARE OF ROLLS ROYCE MOTOR CARS" only has the so called "taxable" horsepower, which, as many of you know, has NOTHING to do with power output - is merely a calculation based on displacement, for revenue purposes. I can tell you fellows this - over the years, I have driven, worked on, etc. many different luxury cars of the 1920's, and again, this "new toy" of mine, well..NOTHING I am aware of in t erms of production cars of that era. could catch it, EITHER in raw accelleration or top speed potential. But again, in all fairness, my understanding (Pack. 53 apparently knows the prices better than I do )...this thing costs many times more, and has a much larger displacement and more modern design engine (over-head valve and excellent "breathing" for the era) than the luxury cars of that era I am familiar with. Again, Packard, Lincoln, Cadillac, Pierce Arrow, Chrysler Imperial, etc., all had around 380 cu in., MUCH lower gearing, NO high speed differential gear "option" (that I am aware of) didn't weigh that much less, and to top it off, much less efficient engine design. Pack 53 - if you are seriously interested in my particular Rolls, there is quite a nice little write-up, ( showing my very car! )in a book a fellow showed me )sadly, only briefly, had no opportunity to make a copy) (which I HAVE to purchase, entitled "ROLLS ROYCE IN AMIERCA". You asked about the body - since the car is a "Springfield", built here in the United States, (apparently some differences to the English Rolls) it is a Brewster, and it is called a "Picadilly" roadster ( Rolls apparently named its body styles after various locations in England). Wheel-base measures about 144". I dont know if FANTASY JUNCTION (the sellers ) still has the very descriptive article and photos about it, but should you log on and find it (it is about page four (or was) in their "current inventory") you can see what it looks like. Or you can E mail me and I will send you some photos I just took, if that interests you. Again - I think this forum is a price-less form of education for us to learn more about our hobby of old cars. I just cannot understand why some of you take disagrements about technical/historical info. as some kind of personal matter. "Dog Spot"