alsancle
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Posts posted by alsancle
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Bosco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Lancefield fabric bodied Stutz that AK Miller had found and purchased in England was supercharged. The factory supercharged chassis was exported to England where it was bodied, as AK recounted the story to me when he showed me the car in the early 1990s. </div></div>
Don, that's neat that you got to see the car when AK still owned it. Did he ever actually drive the car? I have a picture of that (AK's) blower on the dyno at George Holman's place when he was setting it up for Skip Barber. I know George had to do quite a bit of work to get the blower to run properly.
regards, A.J.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T do a thing to it other than get it up & running and safe to tour. Just got back from LA and saw that Woods in the Petersen collection. Post that photo & info on Jay Leno's Garage website, he's nuts over steam cars and alternate power cars. There has to be 20-24 Stanley Steamers within a hours drive of my house here in Connecticut so you should be able to get all the info you need. That was one smart buy on your part, enjoy it. </div></div>
I agree with Bob. Very cool and should be touched as little as possible. There was a early 20s Stanley roadster at the Mount Wachusett show a couple of years ago that still had it's original paint - super cool.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, The Stutz Special has the record for longest wheelbase, my 1925 Henderson 4 powered midget may have the shortest. It's put my '37 Harley restoration on the back burner. The wheels are all rebuilt and have new tires, body fab work should start this winter. Does anyone know what Hunters Lodge on 167 Causeway St, in Boston was in the 1925 - 1930 era? They sponsored the car, and I need photos of the car in that time. </div></div>
Bob, did you ever get any info on the Waltham fire? If they ever get the boston globe optically scanned like the NY times, you would be able to get info on the Hunters Lodge in about 3 seconds. Right now they have scanned only up to 1924, and start again in 1979. I searched for "Hunters Lodge" and got 4 hits but they were early (and you have to pay to see the details!). I got nothing on "167 Causeway".
A.J.
ps, the link is http://search.boston.com/local/Historic.do?s.tab=historic
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If you guys are interested I updated the page on Stutz Superchargers and there are a few more pictures there plus a comparison with the 540k system which is the most similar of the prewar blower setups.
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I think "stock" antiques (anything older than 1975 is my definition) are alive and well. I have a buddy that does bone stock prewar classics and he's up to his eyeballs. I'm restoring my Stutz Special, of course it wasn't exactly "stock" when it was new so maybe it falls more in the hot rod category :-).
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I hadn't thought out the plan that far forward. :-).
A.J.
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Steve Pugh casually mentioned in a thread up in the AACA general forum discussing AK Miller that he knew of a Stutz Blower for sale. About a month later it was sitting on my desk. I was going to bring pictures to the meeting at Hershey but naturally forgot them. I figured you guys would enjoy some so here you go.
This blower was removed from a car in a wrecking yard outside Chicago by William Johnson in 1937. Mr Johnson was an engineer and as a side job worked for local racers. He wrote a letter to Stutz in 1937 inquiring about parts and the availability of more blowers, as well as the performance characteristics of the SV16 and DV32 engines while supercharged. The response from Stutz came back within 2 weeks and informed him that all the engineers were gone and that the company was more or less gone with just a service shell remaining. He also made detailed engineering drawings of the blower with the idea of adapting it to racing. After WWII he moved to southern CA and around 1951 his dad packed up all his "junk" including this supercharger (in the crate pictured below) as well as other racing parts including a Duesenberg Grand Prix engine and Model A Duesenberg blower and shipped everything to him. He seems to have "retired" from the racing hobby with his move to California so everything stayed locked in his garage until his death a few years ago. Most of the contents of the garage were purchased by a well known restorer and his even more well known celebrity client. Fortunately they were not in to Stutz so I got this.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 58Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with Mr. Wolk. The MKIIs, Cad Broughams, Ghia bodied Chryslers are as much Classics (upper case) as the Brewsters with lowly Ford underpinnings. How about Jensen Interceptors? Lovely coach built cars. Dual Ghia? There is a long list that should/could be included but are not because of year or by dint of having a, somewhat, pedestrian chassis </div></div>
In my younger days I thought the same thing. I've come to understand that the CCCA is about an era as much as the cars themselves. The biggest mistake they made was going from 42 to 48. It is much cleaner to stay on the early side of the war, and the era was done by WWII.
Btw, although there are applications for inclusion that happen to this day, there is next to no change to the actual list. What gets applied for is generally some obscure chassis variant of an existing accepted car and it's almost always on the pre-1928 side.
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All that you say is true with regard to the CCCA defining the term within the context of their club. I differ in that I think sticking with their definition in all contexts is the right thing to do as it keeps things clear. With me it's a "precision of language" thing (to quote someone from the CCCA forum). I'm just not a big believer in the idea that if someone wants to call their "insert any car here" a classic, because they feel like it, we should all pat them on the back and say "wonderful". Doesn't mean it's not a great car - in fact if it's a certain Ferrari model, it could possibly be worth more then every Classic in existence, it's just not a "Classic" using the definition mostly accepted within the car hobby.
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I think the correct term is "rice rocket".
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrpushbutton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go look at the Classic Car Club of America's website--they explain their definition of what a "full classic®" (their new trademark term) is and the list of what vehicles they consider to be a full classic. In short, they are cars that were luxurious, powerful (for their day) and expensive when new, usually not produced in huge numbers. Not Chevies, Fords and Plymouths, very few models from the big three are accepted full classics.
The term has almost been rendered useless to them (hence the "full classic" invention) by the mass media and other members of the car collecting community, who use the term to describe anything no longer being produced as a classic, from 55-6-7 Chevies, 65-up Mustangs, to Monte Carlos. A Caprice classic and a Rambler Classic are not full classics®.
It's a free country, you can use the term however you want and apply it to any vehicle you wish. I prefer to be more literal and use the more descriptive terms used by the more knowledgeable in the hobby e.g.
early cars
brass cars
antique cars (all encompassing term)
classic cars (the CCCA list)
post war cars (including decade descriptions, "40s cars", "50s cars" etc.)
muscle cars
sports cars
Ghetto cruisers
party vans
beater cars
British cars
Jap cars
hooptie cars (see: beater cars)
struggle buggies
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Well done. This topic always starts a lively discussion that usually ends up with someone pissed at the CCCA because their car is not included in the CCCA list.
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Bob, you are 100% right about being overused.
Required:
1. Unknown but maybe rumored to exist.
2. Unseen for years (at least 25 but 50 is better)
3. Cannot be owned by a collector or somebody that knows what's going on. I've got one that hasn't seen the light of day for 40 years or so but I'm not going to call it a barn find.
On the other hand my Stutz qualifies on every count (including the barn):
http://www.townisp.com/~alsancle
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrpushbutton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RM does not offer the cars they sell with reserves, and they have been getting pretty good results on their auctions. </div></div>
RM will take cars either way assuming the car meets their auction criterion for that auction and that your reserve is not crazy.
In the last few years they have conducted a number of no-reserve estate auctions and have achieved huge sales results.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your jackbooted brownshirted armbanded "inspectors" show up in the flea market asking to "see your papers", tell them to expect a used Model T Ford axle installed in the back of their head. ...........I've had a swap meet spot since 1974 and haven't had reason to [censored] yet. </div></div>
Bob, sadly, 10/20 years ago every spot looked like yours - which was pretty cool. These days at least 1/2 the chocolate field is filled with parked cars, RVs or "honor" tables where somebody puts out literally 10 dollars worth of scrap and you slide the money through the cracked window of their car.
I see no problem with people having a double spot and parking their car in one of them assuming they have a table set up in the other. That is different from what I saw this year (and last) which was rows and rows of parked cars and no vendors.
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If you define "classic cars" as CCCA classics or highly desirable pre-1960 cars then absolutely not. If you define "classic cars" as muscle cars, or any old car with marginal collector appeal then yes.
To cherry pick a single example, the Stutz in the list below sold for twice the huge price it got 3 years ago. 350k vs 700k.
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I read in the club newsletter that there was going to be an auction of all this stuff. I recall earlier in the year an ad in Hemmings or somewhere else that the stuff was for sale for 1.5 million. I have not be able to locate any info on the auction.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrpushbutton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know the name of the individual selling the late 70's Dodge tradesman custom "party" van? I showed a friend a picture of it (which I got off of someone's page-link from here and now can't find) and he's very interested in the car. Would the AACA car corral organizer have a record of the owners? </div></div>
A great idea would be to post pictures and descriptions of the cars prior to the event. Like I said before, this needs to be promoted. Twenty years from now there will be a car corral, some auctions, a greatly diminished swap and a show with lots of chevettes :-). I want a reason to keep going!!!
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paul Dobbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a multiple car owner, I welcome the guy who thinks I have to many cars. If he likes one more than I do, he can buy it. The measure of like is expresssed in dollars.
When I put a high price on it, it mean I like it a lot,
when you put a low offer on it, it means you don't like it as much as I do. If we can agree, we're both happy.
Every time I ask the price of a collector car I make a value judgement that determines ownership.
I like the system and I really like my cars. Now I know that sometime soon I'll see another car that might make
reorganize my likes and dislikes and result in a lower
price on one to make room for the next love of my life.
Pretty good system, Huh? </div></div>
This is well put and exactly what I was thinking the other day. The market is a beautiful thing. I always get a kick out of the inevitable "guy with 4 cars is the bad guy" post and it's close cousin the "rich guys are hiding all the cars" post. Both show an admirable lack of understanding for how world works. Decoded what it means is somebody else should work hard and then hand their car(s) over to somebody who doesn't share their work ethic.
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Very cool! One thing you could always count on at the Hershey Show was seeing some stuff you wouldn't see anywhere else. This year it was the milk/delivery trucks which were fabulous. Last year it was the race cars. I hope that sort of thing that can continue year after year. I really hope that "diversity" means stuff like this and not different colors of some particular econo-box made during the oil crunch.
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Where they really giving the full catalog away? I would be shocked by that. RM usually has a reduced form of it that they mail out before the auctions, perhaps it was that one they were giving out at the swap meet?
A full catalog got you admission to the cocktail dinner, but you did have to RSVP in advance (and did not have to be a bidder). I'm surprised you were not let in if you were on the list.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stock_steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alsancle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It will be very interesting to see what the common interest is between the guy with the 32 ford and the guy with the 82 Chevette. </div></div>
How about: "The both like antique cars"...
Or is this a trick question? </div></div>
It's not a trick question. It's a trick answer, one that resides in us who do enjoy comprehensive displays of automotive history.
It's a very different experience going to the Philadelphia Art Museum and going to the Warhol Museum, one is diverse in it's display and the other is highly focused. The perspective that diversity provides to both the participant and the spectator is priceless. Also the diversity of exposure provides avenues of discovery that some treasure, and others (in their own mind) have outgrown. If one is so averse to new experience, perhaps Hershey isn't for you.
It's sad that so many in the pre-war community proclaim such aversion with pride. It's encouraging and hopeful that so few (if any) of the newer antique afficienados do the same. I know which camp will provide growth in both the overall hobby interest and in the pre-war cars as well as time takes it's toll on all of us, and it isn't the camp of intolerance.
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Alsuncle, there most certainly <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">is</span></span> a common interest among '32 Fords and Chevettes, and among Duryeas, Duesenbergs, and Whizzers as well. I hope you find it someday like most of us have.
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You know, I noticed that the Chevette owners seemed much more open minded, tolerant and diverse then those elistist, closed minded and "experience averse" old car owners. Not only that, I think that some of those early car guys are *gasp* Republicans !!! :-)
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Any singles you see floating about are paid for by the vendor in that spot.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hwellens</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the reason the older people complain about the newer cars is because AACA keeps changing their policy. It was 1929 and older back in the 60's; then they said they one allow one model year every 2 years, but, definitely stop at 1940.
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The "older people complain" is misconception. I just turned 43. I was in high school in the early 80s and my friends and I thought that the new cars at the time were complete POS. Everybody was in to the 60s stuff.
Successful clubs work over the long haul because all the members share a common interest that bind them. It will be very interesting to see what the common interest is between the guy with the 32 ford and the guy with the 82 Chevette.
Packard Lebaron Super 8 project for sale
in CCCA - Buy/Sell
Posted
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1941-Pack...sspagenameZWDVW
I think a few more pictures would be nice. A description other than, "it's really bad" would be better. I guess I can't help myself from critiquing eBay ads.