CBoz

Attached is a pic of the "project." She obviously needs work, but I've been down this road before, so it's not too scary. All the parts you don't see -- skirts, trim, handles, etc, etc. -- are boxed up somewhere else. I'm making a list of what I need to fix / restore / replace, which will keep me busy for awhile. If you look closely, you can see the lead work around the headlights (which will need to be redone) and where the floors were completely replaced. And yes, those front fenders will need *alot* of work <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info, folks. I looked at the pics Ace sent me, and while his has definite bends, it's nothing like the smooth bow shape my old one has. Furthermore, neither Ace's nor mine look like the one in the chassis manual. I'm beginning to think there was a bend for clearance purposes, but I'm not sure if enterprising mechanics didn't "take matters into their own hands" when necessary to make it work. Very interesting... Attached is a pic of my old one (in yellow primer) and the reproduction one. Aside from the fact that the new one uses an adustable sleeve, notice how different the bends are.

Hello - Just wanted to let folks know that there is a person out there who does *superb* work restoring old running boards. His name is Hunley Acuff, down in Georgia (706-866-4875), and he also advertises under "Services" in TWOTZ. I sent him my badly beat-up ones, one of which required substantial work on one end to get back in shape. What he sent me back are absolutely beautiful, like-new running boards. Three cheers for Hunley! Attached is a pic that shows the front end of the boards, just to give you an idea of the detail.

Hello - I have a '37 coupe, and am replacing the draglink (long rod going from the steering gear to the passengerside front tire) because the balljoint is completely shot. I noticed that my original has a distinct bow shape in it, but can't determine whether this is original or maybe caused by a jacking "incident" years ago. Does anyone know? If the bow is original, is it necessary to clear something under the car? I have a replacement that can supposedly be used for Fords and Zephyrs, but it does not have this distinctive bow shape.

Here's a look at what you have after being restored: http://www2.oakland.edu/concours/index.cfm?car=221 In general, drivetrain components are not going to be as hard to find as trim components, although pretty much anything you'd want (as far as I can tell) is available. Parts *are* much more expensive than Ford V8s, however, that's why you want to make sure you get as much as you can. Just thinking out loud, here are the specific things to look for, since they will cost some money if not there: 1. Are the long stainless pieces that go down the sides there? 2. Are the stainless steel pieces along the hood apron there? 3. Even though the interior will need to be redone, are the seat frames there? 4. Is the engine a V-12? If so, are the aluminum heads on it? What about the carb? If original, I think it will have "Zephyr" on it. 5. How is the body? In particular, is there significant rust in the floors or anywhere else? How are the doors and trunklid? What about the window surrounds? These are unique to the coupes. 6. What options does it have? Heater? Overdrive transmission (Look for a funny little box on the rear axle)? Radio? All these make the car more valuable IF present. 7. Look for other little trim pieces and stuff -- door handles, window cranks,inside mirror, headlights and taillights. The more you have, even if they need to be replaced or refurbished, the better off you are. I'm sure Dizzy Dale will have more to add <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Hope this helps.

Phil - Go through hemmings.com and look for price checkers. It'll guide you there.

A few more questions: 1. Is the drivetrain there? Is it a V-12? 2. What is the condition of the chrome / trim? Is it redoable? If so, sounds like a very nice find. A price checker at http://hemmings.com/hemmings/searches/price_checker/nadaguide.cfm suggests the following: Low Retail: $13,850 Average Retail: $20,100 High Retail: $29,400 where low retail is a running car, but needs alot of work. Personally, I think these prices are low given how hot the 3-window coupes are, but if you can get a complete car for under $10k, I'd do it.

Hey Pete - Well, I'm going to start using it more often, and hope it snowballs. When I can, I'll also start posting pics regarding the resto of my coupe. Hopefully, we'll get critical mass as more people realize just how powerful a tool this is. Maybe we might even get Jerry Emery to plug this site in TWOTZ.

Thanks for the response, Bill. I hadn't thought about that, but you're right -- it's the bushings that are designed to go first. I'm new to the whole kingpin setup, but it looks pretty simple, especially compared to more modern cars. This is only an impression, but it seems to me that the post-War Lincolns are much more different from their Ford contemporaries than the pre-War Zephyrs are. The pre-War Zephyrs seem more "built to cost" to avoid competition with the K-models. But by '46, the K-models were gone, and there was nothing to hold back the Continentals. You can see it in the appointments and trim, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in other places as well. The man I bought my coupe from also had a '48 Continental convertible he was going to restore. Wow! -- what presence that car has. I would think finding and restoring all the chrome and stainless steel trim could be a real task.

Hello - As part of my restoration, I'm going to completely redo the suspension and steering system. I have never seen balljoints so worn out -- I can literally shake them like a rattle! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. Anyway, I'm wondering where there is overlap with the more readily available Ford pieces. For instance, it's my understanding that the drag link and tie rod are the same, but what about the kingpins? Also, are the shock linkages the same? In my chassis manual, I have part numbers that begin with "48" or "68" rather than "H" or "HB" (which are '36 and '37 Zephyr parts, respectively). Is this the only way to tell, or are there other ways? I'd be interested in any insight or experience anyone has in rebuilding their steering and suspension, or even their *overall* impression about the overlap between Ford and Zephyr parts in general. For example, it looks to me like a '37 Ford gas tank (available in repro) may bolt right in. I look forward to your comments.

Glad to have you on board, Bill. Believe me, as I piece my car together, I *will* be asking you for advice!

Hey Dale - We'll cut them some slack since this is the week of the 4th, but after that ... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Books would be the best, I agree. But I was thinking of something quick and dirty that would get stuff on the Web.

Or one other idea: How about starting an online list of parts that were substitutable between the regular Fords and the Lincolns? I'm not saying this because I want to undercut the parts vendors (who have a wealth of knowledge and deserve to be compensated for it), but it just seems kind of foolish to go around looking for a rubber bumper with a Lincoln part number on it when the Ford part is exactly the same and readily available in reproduction.

Folks - Maybe we should prioritize some things for the LZOC membership to consider. If I could pick *one* task that would be the greatest benefit to those of us trying to restore these cars, it would to develop a comprehensive picture gallery. Specifically, we could ask folks familiar with details of each of the different models to take a thorough set of electronic pictures of these cars, looking at everything a judge would -- engine bay, interior, finishes, undercarriage, etc. Maybe 35-40 pics of each at 100k a shot (total of about 4 MB). The ideal candidates would be known show-winners. These pics could then be organized and posted through the LZOC website, with explanatory captions. New / better pics, as well as new models, could be added as they became available. Imagine what this would do for the hobby! Not only would the level of restoration accuracy go up, but newcomers would have something to aspire to, and could get a real feel for what these cars were like before taking a blind plunge like so many of us newbies had to. I'd be glad to help in any capacity I can. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> What do you all think? Is there a better place to start?

Actually, 122" in '37. Grew to 125" the next year. Either way, plenty long <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

For all those folks who think $80 is a good price for the '37 coupe model, a little bit a surfing suggests there may be better deals out there: http://www.legacydiecast.com/xq/asp/id.E...owroom_make.htm I can't vouch for this particular vendor, but there are other deals out there as well.

First, I want to say that I think the Meads do a wonderful job keeping this site going, so my comments are not aimed at them. But here's my [censored]: we have this *wonderful* technology for socializing, sharing information, selling cars and parts, and generally expanding the Zephyr family, and only a few people are using it. Some of the blame must be put at the feet of LZOC leadership and the senior members of the hobby. So I'm going to challenge you: 1. LZOC leadership and senior members need to make some effort to visit and participate on this forum. As far as I can tell (and I apologize if I'm wrong), no one in a senior leadership position comes here. If they do, they're lurking in the background. There are a couple experienced folks here who do share their knowledge, but there are probably more "newbies" trying to figure things out, and no one wants *my* advice! Is this anyway to run a club? 2.Swap meets are fun and all, but they are a LOUSY way to put potential buyers and sellers together. I'd like to challenge some of the more active vendors and service providers to take advantage of the classifieds section, even if it just involves posting an html version of the catalog. Hey -- it's just a waste of time and money for you to mail a catalog that can be made instantly available everywhere. 3. Other marques have very active and interesting tech forums, where knowledgeable members can post pictures and describe various mechanical and restoration issues. Is there a way LZOC leadership can push for this? I can only guess why this problem has occurred. Maybe it's because the membership is very clique-ish and doesn't feel the need to reach out. Or maybe it's because LZOC membership is older and less computer-literate. But my 71 year-old dad surfs with the best of them, so I'm not buying that. Besides, if you can understand a Zephyr distributor <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />, you can understand the Web. Right now, it takes a very dedicated, brave soul to enter Zephyrdom for the first time. And the lack of Web participation by our club members doesn't help any. If potential new members say the heck with it and drop a Chevy 350 in, who can blame them?

Yeah, I see your point. Maybe he just put it together to make it more sellable. Who knows. Anyway, went up to Va and picked up the rest of my car stuff today, including the two blocks. The extra core block was taken out of a wrecked car back in 41, and frankly, I don't think it'll need to be bored at all. Maybe a hone job and back with standard pistons. What's amazing to me, being new to pre-war cars, is how dang-blamed heavy everything is! Geesh, the oilpan itself must weigh nearly 20 lbs. I can pick up a bareblock 289, but had to struggle with this 267 <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I have to think these engines could take alot of abuse.

Dale - My bodyman tells me there's some final bodywork that can only be done with the body together, where you can look at the fit and flow of the lines. If I read the ad right, the guy has $17K in the body and $4k in the engine. Even if everything else is mostly complete / correct, he's going to have a hard time getting his money out at this point. Let's just hope whoever the buyer is *doesn't* decide to rod this car. Too nice as it is to do that to it.

Don't know what the reserve is, but this looks like a promising candidate for a correct restoration: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...bayphotohosting

Questions: 1. Did the Ford V8 and LZ use the same thermostats in the same years? 2. Is the starter button the same? Was it a stainless steel bezel with "Starter" written above and a black button? Thanks in advance.

Phil - Then please plant a bug in Dave's ear. He could split the profits with LZOC, and perform still another valuable service to the hobby. Frankly, too much Zephyr knowledge is in the heads of individuals or in old issues of TWOTZ that may or may not be readily available through Dave. It's going to be hard to keep people interested in keeping the cars original if they can't get the info! And if you ever want to sell your copies, let me know. Just don't auction it on ebay where I'd have to compete with Ace and others <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You're right, at that price they are a bargain. The ebay auction and interest only highlights how good a business opportunity it would be for someone with the know-how to edit a volume of the best articles. How about a *series* of books -- engine, interior, chassis, etc. Anyway, if you balk at the shipping cost, let me know. I'd be willing to take them off your hands <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [PS -- I was one of the cheapo bidders. Serves me right!]

Look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2178395369&category=35934 Nearly $200 for back issues of The Way of the Zephyr. This demonstrates just how little good information there is out there for restoring these cars. Makes me think *someone* could make some serious money merely by pulling the best how-to articles out, organizing them, and making copies of them. Any takers? I'd certainly pay good money for it!

The general shape of my trunk hinges is very similar (and they may be substitutable), but mine don't have the wound springs on them.