96roadmaster

Steve, where is the application for the show? The only thing I found on the website is a Buick Club application, is that the one?

Sorry, can't help with your question, but how about some pictures? I love the 63's and will get my hands on one soon...

I'd like to give that Prius a shot. I bet I can undercut anyone's MPG's. If I can get 10.4 MPG in the 96 Roadmaster averaged over the past 3000 miles, I think I can find a way to hit an all time low in the Prius as well. Of course, that's assuming the car would live long enough to report back The dealer I'm talking about with the 3 Prius's on the lot advertised the cars with a $3k markup, but as soon as I sat down they knocked it down to sticker. I was even surprised at how desperate they were to get me into a car. I called my friend in NJ immediately after and he confirmed that his dealership was still on a waiting list. I could have kept haggling, but in the interest of time I took off since I still had to visit Honda and Ford.

Dave, your car is no doubt a great choice for yourself. I'm not here to argue whether or not it's a money-saver with the MPG you are getting. Your driving habits seem to be optimized at increasing your savings. It also sounds like the Prius is a popular car in your neck of the woods. While doing the report, I talked to a friend of mine who works at a Toyota dealership in New Jersey. He has trouble keeping them on the lot and has a few month waiting list at all times. That contrasts sharply with the cars here in California. The Toyota dealer near my house has been having a hard time selling the hybrids they have on the lot. In fact, the same 3 Prius' that were sitting there 2 weeks ago are still there. There are NO markups or extra costs of the sort. Rawja, with the ever increasing price of gas, I think people are going to start looking at hybrid cars all over again. There is news now that Panasonic is looking to manufacture the batteries for the Prius, which will drop the price down to $3k for the new battery. Their target price is $1k. I will be interested to drive the upcoming Lexus LS600h, just out of personal curiosity. I wonder if they were able to overcome the artificial feel of the steering and brakes that were reported by many owners of the RX400h.

Rawja, I agree. Heavy traffic is obviously better for a hybrid vehicle since it decreases the idle time of the gasoline engine. Those who sit in traffic all day long are better able to realize the MPG gains. I didn't talk to the people at InsightWorld, but I did browse their forum and also a Prius forum as well (don't remember the site offhand). Dave, it's interesting to note the increased sales between January 2005 and January 2006. What was your source on those figures? Here is the chart we have: Also I found a number of articles stating the declining sales of the hybrids. These sources included Motor Trend, MSNBC, and I think Bloomberg. They reasoned that the hybrid sales have started declining because consumers have realized these cars don't return the stated MPG, and are now calculating their breakeven points. With a marketing background, we also concluded that many of the early purchasers of hybrids were the First Movers, who consist of the type of people who embrace new items on the market. This further justifies the $10k price markup when gas prices were just $2.20 a gallon. When I said the Camry was a pig, I meant that it doesn't return the MPG that Toyota advertises with most people's driving habits. I can sit in traffic for 8 hours a day and obviously it will work great for me, but when driven 50/50 on the freeway and surface streets, it's just not returning the numbers. However, that argument is like beating a dead horse, since everybody's driving styles may vary. I wouldn't go as far as calling any information a lie. I've referenced all my information in my paper and have sources for everything. I could also argue back and forth about your sources, but choose not to go that far. According to the information I pulled, the batteries do indeed need to be pulled out at a recommended 7 years. Sure the car will keep on running with an older battery, just not as long. The gasoline engine will kick in more frequently. The issue of used batteries are situational, and does nothing for my report, which is focused on the hybrid industry as a whole. As you can see in my first post with the results, I said the hybrid is a great technology, but I wouldn't jump into a hybrid car just yet. I know it's the way of the future, and all the automakers have hybrid plans in their near future (Chevrolet Tahoe is a good example). Lexus is now pushing to produce its "muscle" hybrids, whereas the Toyota lineup is focusing on increased MPG. Nissan is about to enter the market with the Altima hybrid, Ford has plans to release a hybrid version of the Five hundred (and a few other cars), GM is supposed to have a 2007 Tahoe and Yukon hybrid... You get the idea. Everyone is embracing the technology. Good luck with your Prius. I understand how your driving pattern and habits make the Prius work for you, since it is returning remarkable MPG's. But I think I'll stick to my Buick for now. Hey, I AM supporting the General

Dave, that chart is skewed. The only reason the hybrid sales are up on that chart is because there are more hybrid models offered now. If you compare the same car over the past year, yes, sales have slumped. If you would like, I can insert the charts and references from my paper. Your Prius is a freak to return those miles. Btw, owners have reported a discrepancy between the mpg the car indicates on the dash and the actual mpg it is getting. The only "muscle" hybrids that are faster than their gas counterparts are the Lexus RX400h, Toyota Highlander (same platform) and Honda Accord. You will note that these hybrids only return marginally better MPG's than their gas counterparts. The Camry hybrid is a pig, and only returns 33mpg. That's less than a Diesel VW. The battery replacement is not dependant on mileage, rather on age. At the 7th year mark (some cars are 5 years), the batteries get to come out. They can only be replaced by the dealer at their standard hourly rates. Please understand that I am not bashing the hybrids. I'm only reporting the information I found. I have all references to my claims.

OK, here goes. I'm not even sure how to present the data on the forum (numbers everywhere!), so I'll just break it down. If there is any specific information you would want me to post, please ask. I ran the survey through a bunch of online car clubs I'm on, so here is the gearhead point of view on hybrids. 4% actually own hybrids. 72% will NEVER touch a hybrid. 39% of these people said it is due to looks/performance. 11% said they prefer feeling safe in larger cars. 32% said they are concerned about long term costs/savings. 17% said they will never sacrifice performance for economy. (Note some people gave more than 1 reason). 67% are definitely interested in Diesel when/if it can burn clean and match the MPG of the hybrids. The average miles commuted each year fall in the 15,000-20,000 category. Now for the meat of my report, hybrids don't deliver the claimed MPG in real world driving conditions. Considering the available rebates and gas mileage, it takes 4 years to break even on a Prius Hybrid (not considering the battery costs 7 years down the road), and a WHOPPING 22 years to recover the extra hybrid premium on a Lexus RX400h. Hybrid sales have recently slumped, and dealers are offering many incentives to buyers. My local Toyota dealer was overeager to sell me a Prius, and started offering discounts before I even asked. Honda Accord Hybrids are now officially on a on-order basis, since they spend about 90 days on the dealer lots before they are sold. Ford is offering 0% financing and employee prices on the Excape Hybrid, and they still had about a dozen on the lot when I stopped by. I didn't include any safety concerns in my paper afterall, since it was going to get very messy. But from the things I've found... Hybrid cars are supposed to be safe in controlled environment conditions. They claim there is no risk of electric shock. Since when is the real world a controleed environment? I think my 1996 Buick Roadmaster is a safe car. Buick and the DOT also thought the same thing. Has anyone ever died in a car accident while driving a 1996 Buick Roadmaster? Yes, because the real world is not a controlled environment. That said, so does the Prius carry a risk to its passengers? The main battery cable runs from the front to the back of the car under the driver's seat, 18 inches into the doorsill. I think that's mighty close, since all it would take is a Chevy Tahoe to embed itseld 18 inches into the side of a Prius. The electrical system is supposed to cut off to prevent any shock to its passengers. But what if it doesn't work? That would send 700 volts straight to its passengers. BMW has the same technology on its cars where the battery cuts off in severe accidents. Did a newer model BMW ever go up in flames because of an electrical fire after an accident? Yes. Since we know that electrical currents have magnetic fields, how does that affect the driver and passengers of hybrid cars? There are no tests or reports on this issue, but it will be addressed in the future. It is advisable not to stand in front of our washing machines and dishwashers when they are working. How about sitting on something that has 3 times as much electrical power? As for the people who responded that they will consider a diesel when it matches the MPG of a hybrid, your car has arrived. The Toyota Camry hybrid offers a real world return of 33MPG, while a Volkswagen Jetta Diesel gets 36MPG. The EPA estimates of the hybrids are incorrect and overstated, so they stand about 20% higher than what they can actually return. The MPG test results are in the current issue of Car and Driver. Thank you all for your time and information. This has been an enjoyable project for me, and a learning experience as well.

I'm sorry to hear that. Best of luck to you.

If I may ask, why are you selling the Riv? I lost track of your thread when you were thinking of buying it, and I was about to congratulate you on the car when I saw your 2nd post in the thread. Good luck either way.

Thank you all for your replies. I am throwing all the numbers together into an Excel spreadsheet. Please be patient as I have over 140 replies between the handful of clubs I posted this on. Once again, thank you all for your time and efforts, Roupin

In addition to the Invicta, I'd also love to see a Grand National, Roadmaster, or even an Electra. Super has a nice ring to it as well. Great name, I hope they dont flop it. Speaking of which, I wonder if Buick would ever ask us for opinions. You'd think Buick would at least try to communicate with the crowd they are targeting. Buick is trying to attract people in my age group to visit the showrooms, so why not ask us what we want instead of trial-and-error? If any of you remember, back in 1992-1993 Ford put out a number of Mustang concept models and took the public's opinion how to design the car. It was a hit. They gave the people what they wanted.

Thank you all for your replies so far. Doug, I actually want gearhead replies, since I am comparing the general population against auto enthusiasts. Btw, have you ever looked into the Impala Forum? www.impalassforum.com Not to detract from anything here, but just passing on some helpful information.

Long story short, I'm graduating next month with my MBA. I'm doing a monster report and presentation on the Hybrid Auto Industry (it was the only way I could do something about cars ). Please reply to this thread, so I can have all the responses in one place. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. What is your current daily driven car? Year Make Model 2. How many miles do you commute per year? <5,000 5,000-10,000 10,000-15,000 15,000-20,000 25,000+ 3. What MPG do you currently get in your daily driver? 4. Have you ever owned a hybrid vehicle? 5. If you answered NO for question 4, do you plan on purchasing a hybrid in the future? 6. If you answered NO for questions 4 and 5, please state the reason. 7. If you answered NO for questions 4 and 5, would you be willing to purchase a diesel with equivalent gas mileage rather than a hybrid?

I've been looking around for the llargest full-line Cadillac sales brochure, but all I've found are 8.5" x 10" brochures that are only 16 pages in length. Are there larger, thicker ones out there? I know Buick used to have 2 sizes, so I'm wondering if Cadillac was the same way.

I'm sorry I lost track of this thread. The 1950 grill is different. Thank you for letting me know though. Brad, does your car happen to have a complete power antenna assembly? Please let me know.

Btw, I +1 your recommendation to the ImpalaSSForum. I'm also a very active member there and there is a wealth of knowledge regarding the B-Body cars. I've saved so much money in repairs and ideas just due to that forum that it's amazing.

I'm still looking for some parts and would appreciate it if anyone can point me in any direction. Phil, you are more than welcome to contact me when you get serious about selling any parts. You have my number.

The trans in that Roadmaster is actually a 700R4. The 4L60 is computer controlled. The 4L60 is based on the 700R4 with some parts interchangeability.

Any update on the manuals? Are they still up for grabs or was Norb able to pursuade the Mrs.? Still interested and now curious. Let us know!

TTT in high hopes.

Brian, thank you for the article. Motor Trend magazine also had an article about him a couple of years ago. I don't remember the exact number of Buicks he had, but his daily drivers included a 1996 Roadmaster Sedan and 1996 Roadmaster wagon, each with a big block 500+ horse engine. I don't remember the exact details now, but it was one impressive article. When asked why he doesn't pursue exotic sports cars like most others, he said something to the effect that Buick was the pinnacle of American cars and carried a respectable reputation in their times. Sadly, we cannot say the same thing about the newer Buicks.

The LeSabre is a 4 barrel carb, and makes it all the more fun because of it. Fuel Injected engines are great tech advancements, but sometimes it's fun to go back in time when everything was simpler. The LT1 in the Roadmaster is standard on these babies from 94-96. It's the same engine used in the Chevrolet Impalas from the same years, so parts are VERY easy to come by and modifications are plenty. There are a few of them running 12's and 13's down the track on another forum I'm on. It's a fun car and is surprisingly fast for it's size and weight. I regularly surprise many people with the brute power it makes off the line. Just to give you an idea, it's tops out at about 146mph on a straight road (I've seen a little over 150 on a downhill). Stock top speed was 108mph though due to a speed governor. The speedometer only reads to 120mph but the digital climate control also doubles as a digital speedometer with a diagnostic code. It's my daily driver for now so it's the car I regularly have fun with. Pretty soon though I'm going to retire it to weekend (fun) duties just to keep the miles off the car. As you can see, we love cars with low miles.

As far as I know, this engine is specific to Buick. I recall reading something about that a few years ago when looking at some performance Buick engines from Kenne Bell. Although I could be wrong since it's been a few years. The car is definitely underpowered, especially compared to my Roadmaster. In fact, I'm willing to bet the '59 will take this car. However, the power it has is enough for the purpose this car will serve. I just love looking at it! Sometime next week if I can find some time, I'm going to take the car to my friend's shop to have everything looked over. I want the brakes checked since even with the low miles, it IS a 22 year old car. Plus an oil change, fresh tires, plugs and wires should make this car a bit happier. Here are some pictures of the Roadmaster...

Dynaflo2, that's not my driveway But I will be taking some pictures with the '84 and '96 together, since they have the same styling flavor and are both white. They'll look like a father and son combo 55PackardGuy, it's a 307 V8 (5.0 liter) with 41K miles on the clock. Mechanically, it's in wonderful shape and feels exactly like it should. It shares the typical GM 8.5" rear axle which is a very relaible piece and has an Overdrive Transmission. I don't know which type yet, but I suspect it's the 200R4 (could be wrong). Our family car was very identical to this while I was growing up, and therefore had memories regarding this car. I tried to track down our original one, but chose not to chase it through Mexico. I found this in Florida, and now it is comfortably resting here in California. I can't stop staring at the car. I spent half of the day yesterday outside washing, polishing it, detailing...

I badly need a 1958 rear speaker grill for the '58 Special that is being restored. I want to keep it original and find an original Buick grill, so please help. I'm trying to avoid slapping on a Chevrolet grill (even put a post in the Chevrolet section), but I hope I find one here instead. Help me find one! I've been going crazy lately. I don't care about the color since it will be painted to match anyway, but I just ask for a straight one that hasn't been bent out of shape. Thanks!