Dave Mitchell
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Posts posted by Dave Mitchell
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A couple of photos of the 42 Darrin at Tom Mix's. No sidemounts and now a trunk again.
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To me the 37 Rollston is far more attractive than the 41 Darrin. There should be a penalty for showing a Darrin with the top up, as with Auburn speedsters and Mercedes Benz special roadsters.
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I think that the Packard is fabulous, not out of proportion at all. I like the balance of hood and body and I think that the rear treatment and fenders flow nicely. The low roofline is terrific and it does look absolutely like a convertible sedan. Do you have photos of it when it was new? It would be interesting to see what it would look like with the leather top. I like the drop in the top of the bodyline, and now that you share the Duesenberg photos, it makes sense that it was a convertible design, with that drop used to keep the top low when down. Interesting things on the Duesenberg are the Packard headlights and tailights, Packard or Packard copied hood top and Cadillac or Cadillac copied hood sides, the rear fenders look like Packard too. The door hinges look the same on the Packard and the Duesenberg. Do you know which of these cars was built first?
The Murphy looks good, too bad the side windows are up, the lines are so clean with the disappearing top. If you compare this with other cars from 1927, it is pretty sharp and you can see where the design of the now famous Duesenberg Murphy roadster came from.
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DavidMc - I agree, the standard Packard bodies are across the board very, very nice. I guess that is a good part of the reason why I am a Packard guy. I like the standard sedans and convertibles a lot, but it is fun to see the unusual cars too. For me the custom body is what sets the pre WWII cars apart. There is no real equivilent to the custom body today. You can order special interior or equipment on your Rolls, Aston Martin, Maybach etc, but given the way that cars are built now, it is almost impossible to build a one off modern car. There are plenty of guys building hot rods or hobby cars, but not cars for everyday use like these custom bodied cars were. In the custom body era, you could go in and order a one off car that was technologically as good as any car on the road and yet express your personal style or build a car for your needs, and have something different than anyone else.
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I have a good friend who does his own restoration and he is very competitive at the highest levels - and he has better sense of color, fit and finish than a lot of big collectors, which helps a lot. He doesn't suffer from the malady of some big collectors who say something like "I already have 6 cars painted like this one was originally, now I think one that is 4 tones of purple with green stripes will look great and get a lot of attention." He also doesn't cut corners. There are still guys out there doing nice restorations on their own. I don't know where to get cheap chrome, paint supplies (paint and primers are not cheap), upholstery materials etc.
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Even the Chevy and Ford dealers charge more than $75/hr. If you think a headlight for a Packard is expensive, buy one for a modern car, or worse yet, a computer module.
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I'll be happy to talk about the cost of restoration, but let's start another thread. I know that the government tells us there is no inflation, but everything, everything, that I buy or service I pay for is more expensive than it used to be. Also the quality is worse and nothing is made in the US.
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Ah yes, but all those cars were French.
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It was fun to see a 120 at Pebble hear people excited about it. It would be fun to see a class at Pebble of European bodied American cars.
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Well, I don't think that millionaires and billionaires ever compete on an even playing field, or that there are many restorers who are millionaires, certainly none that are billionaires. Thousandaires maybe. An American car is going to have an uphill battle at most concours, and as good as that Graber body looks on the Packard, it is still a small car. The Graber Duesenberg J is a great car on one of the best chassis, and it was at Pebble owned by one of the right people... That said, the only way for that car to win is in the hands of the right person and right restorer. That car would be an easy restoration also.
The Graber 120 is without question a CCCA classic, or would be if the owner applied for status. There are other classic 120s, with both American and European custom bodies.
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Do you think that a Packard 120 would really be a contender at Pebble?
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1931 Dietrich sedan
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One of my first questions too! Besides, sometimes you can tell when a car was restored by the colors on it. Or the owner - in the 80s/early 90s if you saw a wild color on a big classic, there was a good chance that Noel Thompson had owned it.
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I agree that the Graber 120 would look better in a dark color, or even a light metallic, and somehow it doesn't look as good in the "trial" color as it does in the photos when new. I guess the historian and purist in me sort of struggles with not putting a well documented car back close to the way it originally was. It is easy to get colors wrong when you deviate from original or at least from the color pallet that was available when the car was new. I know that you can paint your car any color you want, and especially with a custom people can't really say you are wrong, but sometimes I really wonder what people were thinking when they chose the colors, even on cars at Pebble. I have seen some "important" and famous cars that leave me cold just because of the color. I saw one of my all time favorite cars after a high point, expensive restoration and liked it better before, just because of the color.
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Knightstown Body Company?
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Those look like Marchall or CiBie lights, French rather than German. The car was for sale at Pebble - since it is in NJ I thought perhaps it might have passed to one of the big collectors there.
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It will be nice to see the Graber restored. It certainly got a lot of attention at Pebble this year even dirty with bird droppings. It had blackout covers on the lights so you could see that they weren't Packard, but not that they were Bosch conversions. In Sweden, the American lights were not illegal, but the man who worked on my car when it was built in 1936 and did the conversion told me that the Bosch lights were just a lot better lights. He also said that the Lorraine spotlights were better than the European ones, along with American heaters, and they just used what was best. Who owns the Graber 120 now? Color choice will be tricky on that car. I have seen photos when the car was new and it cetainly looked good. I wonder if they have evidence that it was the color they sprayed it.
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Another 34 12 Dietrich runabout and a convertible sedan
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Another boat tail speedster
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AIH Chrome in Dubuque, IA has done fantastic work with broken parts for me. Dave Mitchell packard12s@hotmail.com
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Great clip! Great car - looks like a 32 Deluxe 8 town car rather than a V16 limo though. The look at the front is fleeting, but judging by the lights I think it is an 8 and not a Twin Six, put perhaps a 32 expert will weigh in. Made me want to see the movie.
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Al, The 500/540K and 770s were low production cars and I am not surprised that they were custom built. That 540K Cab A is a stunning car.
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Brad, I don't think that is Doolittle, but I can look at some of my Air Force history books to check for sure. It seems to me that the car either exists or someone has replicated it, but I am not sure. I thought someone here might comment.
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I think that is correct - they did become TRW. I used to be able to get steel strut aluminum pistons for Packards from them, but the US factory was closed.
Custom bodied Packards
in Packard
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