Shawn Miller

Mike, according to my mechanic, who rebuilt my 852 columbia, the vacuum cylinder seal is probably dried up, this is made of leather or some such material, and should be easy to fix. he says that these are relatively simple valves that either work or they dont, not lots of moving parts in there, this being the main one. he has a diagram I cand send to you if you need it. Shawn

OK so whats the story on this unusual car? And not meaning to expose my stupidity, but whats a winterfront? Shawn

I would like to get some resolution on the classic cars only discussion so will close it on Monday 12/9. Please cast your vote by then on that thread- yea: we will let threads go where they will, non CCCA cars or things can be brought up in the course of a thread, but you shouldnt start a thread about a non CCCA car. nay: we won't allow non ccca cars to be discussed here and will nicely move them to the AACA thread. shawn

In one club I am in they just have peoples choice balloting! what a laugh! and they therefore never check anything on the car. it could be locked up, but if it looks good, and the owner is popular, hey he gets a trophy. This is really unfortunate because in this club lots of guys work very very hard to restore their cars correctly. they also only give 1st 2nd 3rd, so since so many of the cars are nearly perfect you just don't have a chance unless you have a cosmetically perfect car. last year in one class I counted 5 cars that were above 98 points in my opinion, but only 3 of them got anything. If you dont like our system go to some other clubs events, you will come back loving it. shawn

Evidently we cant block his IP address, so he can still come here and post anonymously. I can only come here hourly, due to the demands of my job, so there will be times when you come here and see a post, but I just haven't had the opportunity to delete or edit it yet. I let one post remain because it was actually fairly intelligent, and not obnoxious. Shawn

Just so you know I really see no problem with rebodying cars that have lost their body or parts of it for whatever reason. I have such a car. It was originally a sedan. obviously it will cost more to rebuild the body as a sedan than it would to make it a speedster or roadster, and will be worth less if I decide to do that. Part of the history of my car is that it lost parts of its body. I would have no problem with it being classiified as modified if I go the speedster route, but would like to be able to show it. Shawn

Well, I was obviously cagey about the specific event, since I beleive both of these guys are members of the club, and don't want to point fingers at specific people, here on the forum. Actually i think they are both being parted. it is just a trend I see, lets leave it at that. Another problem is that Hotrodders seem to be willing to pay big money for cars, more than we will, so that is happening to some of them as well. I just think we need to be vigilant and try to preserve these cars now even more so than in the past. I think a lot of barn finds will hit the market in the next 10 years. Shawn

Being the editor of our newsletter gives me a chance to write alot (HA). After a certain event I attended this past season I was somewhat upset. i saw 2 cars there that were basically barnfinds and were very restorable, but were in the hands of "dealers" (no offense to dealers in general) i shouldn't say dealers really, but rather individuals trying to make a quick buck. high prices were attached to them, undoubtedly double or more what the guy had paid (unless they were idiots, which i dont think they were). I wrote a seething article about this but edited it out, opting to dwell on the positive things about this event instead. Needless to say noone bought either of them. I heard today that one of them has been chopped up. What a shame! I really dont think this mentality does the hobby any good. how go these guys sleep at night? This car should have been saved, i think it was even drivable. Shawn Miller

I think it is good to have such a class to discourage the type of examples restorer quoted. taking the body from a 6 cylinder phaeton, and swapping it with an 8 cylinder sedan (assuming the body tubs are in fact completely interchangable) would increase the value somewhat(at least double). I had an 8 cylinder sedan and sold it because I wanted an open Auburn, knowing i cant afford bunches of Auburns. It took a while to sell it. I finally found someone who WANTED a sedan! I guess I could have found some 6 cylinder beater and done this instead, but it never occurred to me. Mine was a great original car I went all the way to seattle to get. I would rather have my old auburn back than have a phaeton I knew to be unoriginal. Some things are worth more than money. we are talking about pieces of history here. Actually I miss the sedan and regret selling it. There really aren't very many of them (Probably for this very reason) How many of them have died to create speedsters in the 50's and 60's is anyones guess. I think we should just let them be judged, but keep the class. Shawn

OK now that we have cleared the air a bit, what I was proposing was that we be allowed to TALK ABOUT whatever we wanted in this forum only. No where in the rules of this club does it regulate what we talk about. I have been to many a Grand Classic or Annual Meeting and ended up talking about non CCCA cars with other CCCA members since, face it, many of us have cars that are not on the list, as well as Full Classics. By no means do I want this to become a free for all, but I think threads should go where they will go without a lot of limitations. I dont think people should start a thread talking about their Isetta or new maserati, but if it comes up, lets let it ride. New threads of this nature are obviously best posted on the BMW board or the AACA board. As I stated above part of my reasoning was that the hostility level was getting pretty high, that problem has hopefully been cured, so my main theory is mute at this point. I certainly agree with Ed that this site should be for discussion of primarily CCCA cars, events, et al. but as long as the discussion is civil and people seem to be enjoying it, why kill it? It your forum guys! it is up to you! I am but a humble (yeah right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ) moderator Shawn Miller

Probably should start a different thread for this one. let me test my skills with this system and try to do that in a minute as it is a different subject than what we can talk about here, versus what we accept as full classics. If PH were here which HE'S NOT ANYMORE, he would say that the 8 cylinder Auburns were only allowed into the club later since they werent terribly expensive, and the six would definately not be in our league. being an Auburn Guy I would tend to agree that the six shouldnt be a full classic just as the 6 cylinder (110/120) packards aren't. the 6 is shorter, and not as deluxe. As far as Modified Classics go, I don't know enough to comment intelligently on that class, but from what i understand they cant be judged or shown, they are just sort of in limbo which does no one any good. I do think that we should not give rebodied cars the same clout as original cars, so I think there should be some differentiation made there, just not sure what. Shawn Hey I did it! I am really crusing now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

According to the book I have the longer wheelbase wasnt introduced until 37, but I have called in the big guns on this to be sure. we dont want to be spreading misinformation. hopefully we will hear from Josh soon. Shawn

I got of my duff and looked, I dont have his books <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> , but Dan Post's "Classic Cord" book indicated that the longer wheelbase models weren't introduced until 37. Since I think the trunk wasnt introduced until 37, then we have the only difference in 36 being seats and interior trim, but in 37 the differences would be the trunk and interior trim, and in custom models, the longer wheelbase. Supercharging wasnt introduced on any model until 37 as a point of interest. Keep in mind they were always anxious to sell cars in those days, so they would let people order pretty much whatever they wanted color or trim wise, at least on Auburns, I don't know how much of this was done on Cords, but they were built at the same factory. I would think too that often cars were built using whatever parts were close at hand, so variations in parts inventory could have generated some variations in finished cars. Shawn

I can understand why. It seems like a big can of worms to open, and many other organizations use 48 as a cut off for certain things. I think you cant run a post 48 car in the newport hillclimb, and a hotrod buddy of mine has told me that real hotrods were made prior to 48! Think about it. this club was formed in 52. what if we suddenly have 52 Alfa 6c2500's in the club. they would have been NEW CARS when the club was formed! HA! as it is 48's, would have just been another used car in 1952! shawn miller

Yes, I think most of them have been restored or are on their way. I know that the Indiana State Museum bought a sedan there that they have had professionally restored and it is on display i believe at the new facility. Shawn Miller new member Indianapolis

Actually I think it is pretty close to being perfect. I have been in several other car clubs and if only I could get them to adopt our system. Some of the things that go on in other clubs mystifies me. Shawn Miller

I think things varied by year, in 36 the beverly was just an interior change hence the term "armchair beverly", then in 37 they stretched it and added the trunk, due to customer complaints about lack of storage space. I used to think all beverlys had the trunk, then someone pointed this out to me, but I tend to stay up way too late on the town square drinking beer on labor day weekend so am a little fuzzy on this. Where is Josh Malks when you need him? Shawn Miller

Thats it Peter, you were warned. Everyone wave goodbye to Peter. Back to this thread. Even though Rileys are on the please apply list, i think that no cars have been accepted that were built after 1948. I know some foreign car collectors have questioned this for the rerason I stated above, but i was unaware that the "virtually identical" rule had been applied to any post 48 cars? Am I right? Jon? Shawn Miller Indiana Region

Only cars built up to and including 1948 would be considered as it is now. I don't really see this changing. It used to be 1942, this is basically a prewar club. some 46-48 cars were later let in due to the fact that they are basically identical to 41-42 cars. Being a european car collector, it seems to me it took the manufacturers over there a bit longer to recover, for obvious reasons. There are jags, alfas, Rolls, and probably your riley, that didnt get substantially redesigned until the early 50's, but there doesn't seem to be much support in our club to expand the list any further toward the present. The Milestone Car Society would probably recognise your car as a milestone car. I used to be a memeber and may have their apporved list laying around somewhere. They are kinda small these days, but I think their time may have come here, and with some new input it could be a really great club. they honor post war cars that like the CCCA were fine or unusual. Shawn Miller Indiana Region

not sure what you are talking about here, but for the record, I was happy with the end date being 1942. I don't think we should add later cars to the list, the club is not at all broke in my opinion, and we don't have membership problems that I am aware of, I think we are at an all time high. I do think that this forum is broke. I think it is giving our club a bad name. Disagreeing with someone is one thing, but nasty comments are another. Running people off does nothing to help educate people about why our cars are special, and why we only recognise certain cars. I could care less if you like me (don't know how you would know my viewpoints since I havent really stated them here) but I am not about to attack you personally for your positions. If everyone remains civil there would be no reason to open things up a bit (I was only suggesting relaxed rules governing discussion on the general forum only, I have never advocated taking in later or more pedestrian cars). The problem in my opinion isn't the subjects its the tendancy to beat people up for talking about "lesser" cars that are approved by the club, or talking about other cars at all. Shawn

Ok So i guess this is where we are: You have been warned by the ADMINISTRATOR of this site to stop harrassing people and basically refuse to do so. You have been asked pointedly by the 2 MODERATORS forum to stop harrassing people and basically refuse to do so. you have personally attacked several people on this thread alone, refuse to acknowledge the hurtful and obnoxiuos nature of your statements, and refuse to apologize for anything you have said, or any miscommunication you have caused. Do I have it right then? Shawn

Peter, I don't know where you get the opinion I am some sort of wannabee person who wants to "dilute" the purpose of our club. I am sure the good people of the Indiana Region would not have me as director if this is so. I have tried to ignore your personal attacks about what I beleive, which is ludacrous, since you have never met me, never spoken to me at length, never sent me emails off the site or anything. you dont know me. dont act like you do. To take your room in a big hotel analogy to where we really are at this point: we all would be sitting a such a room, and would have a larger rabid pit bull (you) parked by the door. Any unwitting or curious soul who ventured in to see what was up with us would instantly have his leg bit off! Once word got around not to open our door, and traffic dropped off, you would then starting biting all of our legs off! I thought after I posted this last post that I was really being too kind by giving you another chance. You really need to publically apologize to a lot of people here, particularly restorer 32, j446, ed minnie, and chuck conrad just on this thread alone. I find it hard to beleive that everyone is upset you are being threatened with expulsion. That's not what I am hearing. If that is the way people feel they need to rally to your side now, publically, in this forum. You are on really thin ice here. Shawn Miller

Oh yeah, I am 6'1" and had no problem with headroom, but the cord was designed from the outside, so the front seat is kinda cozy (narrow). we used this as an excuse to keep the kids in the backseat. HA! A supercharged car,if originally that way, could be a good deal at 20 depending on where it is in the restoration process. There were only 80 supercharged westchesters made i think. that blower alone is worth some change. thats the biggest problem with these, people always say "Well it is worth more than that in parts" when quoting these high prices, like it is acceptable to part them out or something. I would take my time, join ACD, go to auburn, talk to others who own them, before just buying one, unless i found a great deal. Even after they are restored things go wrong. they require fortitude and patience. they are the glass slipper of the car world. very beautiful, but very delicate. I had mine 3 years and put 1300 miles on it. you tend to trailer them to events that arent close by unless you are real brave, so add that into your budget/space requirements. there is a major flaw in the stock FWD unit that many people have replaced with the "richardson" system. Opinions varied, but people I trust were not real encouraging about driving long distances with the stock set up. The wheels are prone to cracking and can just come flying off. You need to retighten your lug bolts regularly to guard against this, and getting the hub caps off without tearing them up is not easy. It takes 2 men to remove the "fence" which makes doing most anything under the hood much easier. As a point of reference, I put 2300 miles on my 41 caddy since june. Hope i haven't scared you off! If you still want one after reading this you are definately a Cord man <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> shawn

Cecil, Yes I am familiar with all the publically available unrestored Cords out there. None of them are going "cheap" by my definition. I need to restate that restoring a cord is an expensive proposition. If you can find a good cord westchester for 35-40 grand (you should be able to) buy it! You will spend more than this restoring one even if you do most of the work yourself. therefore if someone is asking 20 grand for a car that needs completely or even partially restored, you are letting them off the hook big time if you buy it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> Shawn

Peter, see my well thought out response under the appropriate thread. only comment about this one is that you ought to look up the meaning of the word "gracefully" shawn