TTR
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Posts posted by TTR
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1 hour ago, moparmike said:
Yes it came out of the car with the engine attached. Has some cracks in it so welding is an option but prefer not to. Since this is a restoration. It is a very late 57 year car. So may have 58 parts.
First, I did just stopped by my off-site storage and I do not have a bell housing with that casting number nor any that Hollander Interchange Manual suggests as a possible replacement, although latter doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't use some other one, but that would require for you to try and make the decision. Sorry.
Also, being presumably a "late-'57" car, your bell housing casting number could be original and appears to be for "water cooled" transmission ("Air cooled" transmissions used bell housings with several openings w/screens on them and smaller diameter torque converters w/rows of small cooling fins).
Good luck with your search and restoration.
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6 hours ago, kramaton said:
I'm sorry you and your friend had that many problems when you overhauled your transmissions. I must have just got lucky when I rebuilt mine.
Thanks, but in my case, it is/was the customer who had poor advise or luck having chosen the previous shop, although in their defense, some of the discoveries of mix-matched parts and other less than ideal workmanship(?) was possibly/probably done already years or decades before their involvement and perhaps they weren’t experienced enough to know or realize the incompatibility.
When I used to rebuild these (& other ‘50s automatics) 20-30+ years ago, many weren’t as “abused” & spare “hard parts” or complete spare transmissions, if needed, were much easier to source.
Heck, I used to buy, have and keep a lot of NOS parts on hand (only for certain transmissions), but all that stock has now been pretty much depleted.I just checked the records of the last two ‘50s 3-spd automatics (both same type, but different year models), including the aforementioned, recent job and apparently both required +/- 100 hours of labor, including removal, complete disassembly, thorough cleaning, inspection & service or replacement of all, parts sourcing research, prep & refinish (in- & outside) of the case, other exposed housing components & hardware, re-assembly, installation, final adjustments & tests (of line, governor, etc pressures), several (short & long) road tests , etc + $2K- $3K each for parts and materials.
Obviously all the above is detailed in invoices which are accompanied by dozens upon dozens (or in some cases, hundreds) of copies of photo-documentation showing any and all before/during/after progress, discrepancies, failed, incorrect, missing components and parts, etc.
And then I have one similar job, still in process for a nearly 70 year old car, but much more complicated due to transmission being an "introductory" year model and was originally littered with numerous engineering failures, features mostly one-year-only main components, any of which haven't been available for 60+ years (most of the originally used and failed transmission were replaced with later/improved models under warranty when the cars were still nearly new), but the owner insisted I try to source and rebuild that ("numbers matching") unit regardless.
Needless to say, this particular job has required more hours, including research, reverse engineering, custom fitting/machining several later model (internal) components and parts, which weren't engineered or intended to interchange to begin with, etc and obviously I can't even guarantee it will work or if it does, how long, but I made the client aware of all this (and initially suggested the use of a unit from next model year or two) before we embarked on this journey.So yes, if you managed to get away with less, it could mean you were lucky enough to have had a good transmission to start with.
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7 hours ago, moparmike said:
To TTR Casting numbers 1853901. Do you have 1
Sorry for delayed reply. I haven't had a chance to visit my storage where they are. I'll try within next couple of days and report back.
I just realized that casting number suggests your bell housing may not be correct or original application for that car/engine/transmission.
Was it in the car/engine/transmission when you received the project and do you know if it had been working with it ?
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1 hour ago, kramaton said:
I rebuilt(?) my 57 Powerglide myself. I bought an overhaul kit and used an old MOTORS manual. It has been at least twenty years now and it still operates smoothly. Cast iron Powerglides are not complicated transmissions. I believe anyone with mechanical skills can do it.
Most 50+ year old vintage car automatic transmissions "are not complicated" and yes, many can be overhauled (Note: I didn't write rebuilt, as like with carburetors & other mechanical components, it's a different concept than overhaul) by anyone with competent mechanical skills (even I've done many).
The problem for most comes from having access to (or ability to fabricate) appropriate special fixtures/tooling some of them require for various assembly processes, but even bigger ones (i.e. problems) come from many having been subjected to who-knows-how-many hack jobs previously performed by, well, hacks*, over the lifetime of any given 50, 60, 70 year old transmission.
Also, finding even good used, let alone new "hard parts", i.e. everything not included in overhaul kits, for most transmissions that old is getting extremely difficult.
Same goes with many 60+ year old engines and other mechanical components.
Why do you think so many people claiming to be vintage car enthusiasts (or professionals) so quickly opt into those "Small Block Chevy" crate engines and "TH ***"s or "T10 w/OD"s, "Mustang II" front suspensions/steerings, Universal Wiring Sets and other "One-size-fits-nothing" Kit Car component approaches in lieu of rebuilding original equipment ?
I just finished rebuilding a 60+ year old 3-spd automatic which had spent 3 extended stints in a "Transmission Shop" supposed to specialize in automatics and have had great experience with this era & type of unit, but I could write pages of shocking discoveries I made during removal and disassembly ...
... and yes, it needed quite amount of "hard parts" to replace either incompatible/incorrect or worn-out items, although it was still easier/simpler job than the rebuilding of a 4-spd transaxle + all its electrical & vacuum operated control mechanisms in a '37 Cord I did last year.
OTOH, my best friend who lives in Europe and has restored several of his own cars (and their transmissions) from late '40s to early '60s (all from same corporate umbrella and have similar automatic transmissions) spent couple of months fighting with a final assembly of a late '50s unit which he had taken completely apart, thoroughly cleaned, inspected, measured, etc, and without changing anything other than all "overhaul kit" parts and after numerous phone and video calls with me advising him how to try different assembly approaches and tests, just gave up and is now looking to acquire another similar, hopefully(!) a "virgin" unit to take apart in efforts to figure out why the one he has is not co-operating.
* See OPs comment about "botched".
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21 hours ago, Bob Pas said:
Well gentlemen I am sorry I failed to get back to everyone about my Plymouth starting problem.I drained the old gas and rebuilt the carburetor. What I found was the Pump jet was clogged. When I worked the throttle of carburetor on work bench virtually no gas was coming through. Took the rivet plug out and removed the jet and thourghly cleaned. Rechecked with gas in the carb before I put back on car and now it works fine. Let car sit for a few days and get in and it fires right up. Thanks for everyones input.
Glad to read it worked out and no need to be sorry about reporting back, even if not immediately. Most people often don’t have courtesy to do it at all.
Did you by chance ended up checking the compression ?
it should always be one of or perhaps the first things to do when diagnosing any running/starting difficulties in any old/used engine, especially in one without comprehensive maintenance/service records
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2 hours ago, joe_padavano said:
I think the thing that impresses me most about this thread is that it took nine whole posts before someone crapped on Harbor Freight... 🙄
Do I win something ?
A merit badge or star sticker at least ?
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Only safety related worry I read/see is straps having been acquired from “Horrid Fright” for $10 a piece, which itself should be more than alarming about their “quality”(?), if that’s even a right word to use with anything they sell.
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20 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
Reality TV rots your brain.
Whether it's about "Cardashians", "Real T***s of Beverly or Hershey Hills", "Pimp/Restore and/or Auction Off Your Ride In a Week or Less", etc, ...
20 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:None of them are worth watching if you want to learn something about fixing cars. They're all ridiculous.
I agree.
2 hours ago, JV Puleo said:I did try watching a couple of these car shows in a hotel room once. In less than 5 minutes I switched off they were so stupid.
I too have only seen few brief moments of some car related "TV shows" over the years, but found all an embarrassment to my hobby, passion & profession (Thanks again "Boomers").
I also cringe and feel embarrassment whenever I mention my hobby, passion & profession to someone who immediately replies with something like "Oh, like those shows on TV ?" (I just want to scream "Hell, no !!!)
And mind you I was offered my own "TV show" (about my shop & work) over 20 years ago, long before they became "popular", but out of self-respect (and that to my profession) I promptly declined and don't regret the decision at all, especially hearing & seeing what utter nonsense they've all become now.
OTOH, I guess it's as the saying goes "To each his/her own" or something like that.
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20 minutes ago, 69merc said:
In spades! 😁
So how long is it ? 😉
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Standard cargo containers, whether 20 ft. or 40 ft. long, are about 7.5 ft wide (inside) and little less than 8 ft. high (inside). Outside width is about 8 ft. and outside height about 8.5 ft.
A stock 1949 Chevrolet 1/2-ton pick is probably about 6.5 ft. wide and 6.5-7 ft. high and should easily fit inside a standard 20 ft. (or 40 ft.) cargo container.
Probably millions of cars and trucks are stored (and shipped every day) inside cargo containers all over the world.
I personally know numerous people who keep their vehicles in them.
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On 3/24/2024 at 1:53 PM, 69merc said:
Subject came up on another club, and thought you guys would know.
Well, did this thread answered the question in the title ?
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Sorry to say but much of the above advise/comments are pointless word salads and not applicable.
Some, but not all, late-'56 through '58 Dodge cars/trucks & Plymouths with 6 and/or 8 cylinder engine bell/converter housings will interchange with minor or no alterations.
I have some, but would need the casting number from yours to help determine if any might work for you ?
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21 minutes ago, MotiveLensPhoto said:
Planning a caravan along the length of Route 66 Chicago to LA, in 2026, if you're interested.
Thanks for the suggestion, but we haven't decided yet which year or time of the year it'll take place. Most likely off-season, either spring or fall.
Care to share more about your plans, perhaps in the thread "Long distance driving/traveling with vintage cars" I started after joining this forum ?
P.S. My best friend & his wife did that trip few years ago (in a modern rental car) and having relied on a "Guide Book" created about (only) 20 years earlier, realized more than half the features/sites/etc noted in that book either didn't exist anymore or were no longer recognizable (but the wife being an avid photographer, still managed to take +/-10K images within that weeklong trip).
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Wife and I have preliminary plans to do a couple of thousand mile road trip to and back from Santa Fe, NM within next couple of years, but like all our other leisure road trip travel, it will be done in a vintage car, most likely in our "Indian Turquoise" '57 Chrysler New Yorker convertible and as much as possible, using secondary highways and back roads, instead of those boring/dreaded conveyor belts known as Interstates.
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6 hours ago, Akstraw said:
Generally speaking, I would expect a cloth top to last longer, as it would be less prone to embrittlement and cracking with age. As mentioned, though, many variables including temperature cycling, sunlight exposure, and flex cycling. Chemical exposure would be another; in particular I am referring to cleaners and surface treatments.
Of course quality is another variable. There are better engineered fabrics, and cheaper, less sophisticated products. Some of the offerings from Haartz, a high end supplier, are PVC over cotton, thus can be described as both vinyl and cloth.
Exactly and as I mentioned there's no easy or simple answer to OPs question. All depends on numerous variables, some of which you mention above.
As a few examples based on personal experiences, I've seen & worked on a 50+ year old (at the time) "preservation survivor" 1950s American convertible with factory installed top of vinyl material which had noticeable shrinkage, but was still fairly soft and pliable.I/we didn't replace it, but instead carefully just cleaned, hand stitched and strengthened couple of areas to preserve the cars originality.
And if it hasn't been replaced since, it's approaching 70 years of age. Not bad for vinyl material.
I've also seen nice condition canvas/cloth material tops on countless cars restored 30+ years ago, but most have not been exposed to much use, let alone variety of elements on regular basis, i.e. garage/trailer queens.
I made and installed the canvas top for my PB Roadster over 30 years/100,000+ miles ago and while it doesn't look anywhere like it initially did, it still protects against extreme elements of blazing desert sun, "cats & dogs" rain or blizzards.-
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Funny, I still don’t see an answer (with practical evidence/proof) addressing OPs question and suspect none will come up either.
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Impossible to answer.
Too many variables at play.
Sort of like asking “How long is a string ?”
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2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:
I see things from a slightly different point of view regarding offshoring . There has always been a parallel market for cheaper " second rate " goods.
Early post war era there was lots of low quality " made in { occupied } Japan " or " made in West Germany " goods on the market. Often almost as good as " made in U.S.A. " but generally quite a bit cheaper. As cost of living rose and income for many didn't quite keep up the market share of these second rate goods increased. Eventually the wholesalers and chain retailers started to source things in china. Profit margins rose, and owners / shareholders were ecstatic. I really don't think consumers demanded low quality goods. Just that their shrinking disposable income gave many no real choice. Share holder return over any other consideration just made things that much worse.
While the early post-war started the inclusion of more "offshore" production of "second rate"(?) goods, it is/was the "Boomers" who kept taking it further and further, eventually destroying all chances for "first rate" quality.
I believe if consumers would've "demanded" by voting with their wallets for better and lasting quality, instead of focusing on short term "savings" and/or extravagance of just having more "stuff", the supply industry would've had to comply.
I don't have higher education in economics, but always thought that's how free market works, i.e. you get what you pay for, and if you keep expecting things to be and get cheaper, well ...
Of course both our views can be equally right, kind of like whether one wants to believe or think which came first, the chicken or the egg.
But in the case what we have today, the choice between cheap and quality is just about gone and no amount of handwringing or typing in some obscure hobby forums isn't going to chance that or bring it back.
That ship sailed (and sunk ?) already few decades ago, but I don't think attempting to place a blame for it on capitalism (i.e. manufacturers, suppliers and their profits, etc) is the right answer either.
P.S. I know I've mentioned before that as part of my restoration business, I do and have produced variety of (high quality) replacements components and parts for various vintage car makes and models.
While my focus for all that has always been about making them as good or better than OEM (i.e. something I can be proud of and won't hesitate to install/use in my own cars), I've also always known that most of the items I reproduce serve a relatively small markets, but in the past 10 or so years have shrunk even more due to influx of "Made in C***a" items which generally cost only 20-40% of mine and tend to have noticeably inferior fit and quality, yet apparently there are those who are willing to compromise with such on their supposed pride and joy.
Oh, and due to this, not only have my "market shares" declined, but so has my "profits" on each item I sell and soon there won't be enough to continue with their production (I'll rather stop completely than embarrass myself by trying to compete downhill with low price crap).
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On 3/23/2024 at 4:45 AM, 69merc said:
Thanks for the explanation! 😀 I get what you're saying, and most of it's true. But I don't believe laying all of it at the feet of the boomers is fair, or even characteristic of them. The boomers just fall into that big category called "human."
Well, weren’t we talking about specific generations, not entire species, and their relative impact to the hobby involving old cars ?
Also, I said I could make list miles long, but didn’t say “all”.
OTOH, if one chooses/wishes to look at the bigger picture, i.e. everyone & everything outside the relatively small fringe* hobby involving old cars, most of my suggestions (listed or not) will apply to just about all aspects of our every day life*, but again it takes ability/willingness to open one’s eyes and horizon’s to see.
* We all know that vast majority of the world population couldn’t care less about what you and I hold dear about old cars. While some “outsiders” may find them amusing, most will never understand why we even bother with them, but same can be said of just about any hobby/interest we don’t necessarily share the passion for with those in to them, be it bird watching, gardening, golf, mountain climbing, live opera/theater (= another one of my interests/passion), literature (= another), skiing, etc…
** Just look around in your garage, home or office, count the percentage of appliances, equipment, furniture, tools, etc which are “Made in C***a” and ask yourself which generation started & pushed for all that, therefore making them, i.e. us, responsible for this downfall of domestic production and lasting quality in lieu of "I want everything cheaper !".
P.S. Even if you read this thread alone, you can see rifts in our hobby and passion, proving that the internet and forums like this (both something our generation ushered on to the world) aren’t necessarily all beneficial for it either, but then again, I've always believed anyone with ability for critical thinking can see that.
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@nick8086 You forgot to mention the most important thing, i.e. what kind of antique/classic/vintage car you’re going to drive this road trip with ? 😉
K-D or ... ?
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I know my comment requires some critical, dispassionate & outside-the-box thinking, which I’ve learned many either aren’t able or willing to even try, so let me try to offer a small window into how I view the world & the disservices done over the past few decades to my lifelong hobby and passion surrounding mainly 50+ year old vintage cars of all stripes:
Which generation introduced and has been continuously rallying for lower cost, i.e. cheap & crappy quality parts for (vintage) cars, not only having forced almost all American manufacturers to move their productions to off-shore, but killing countless domestic jobs and entire industries in the progress of this insistence for cheaper, cheaper, cheaper ?
And please, do not blame manufacturers, as they’re only providing what their buyers, i.e. market buys/demands.
Similarly, which generation introduced and has become the most prominent proponent insisting on “profitability” for buying/owning/restoring/etc of antique/classic/vintage cars, instead of treating/viewing them purely as a hobby & with passion for true enthusiasm ? (I mean what hobby is supposed to provide "profit" when you're done or involved with it ???)
Why else would there be a need or desire for countless auctions, including online & TV Circuses, along with stupefyingly silly Build/Restoration/etc TV shows often making mockery or articles/magazines offering “expert” analyses on “Market Values” of “collectible” (see OP) cars be so popular, not to mention countless online discussion forums mostly filled with idle and/or irrelevant/pointless keystrokes ?
Which generation introduced and is most enamored by all that ?
Etc, etc, etc …So yes, my views may seem like broad strokes, but are they without merit (Rhetorical question) ?
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10 hours ago, 69merc said:
I'm curious (as a Boomer) what you mean by this, but I suppose it might mean the wholesale conversion of classic cars to resto-mods, hot-rods, rat-rods, crazy-customs and all manner of insanity. The media certainly favors this sort of "desecration," if that's what it is, for its shock/monetary value. Another thing I see is people using old classic cars as vehicles for showing off their own skills as opposed to the intrinsic value of the car. I think I heard someone say how incredibly rare a well preserved, stock 49-51 Mercury is, because they have been customized to death! I have a car from a hugely popular year, but of a less favored style (landyacht). I am pouring all sorts of cash into it, trying to keep it safe, and road-worthy, not to mention fully functional, right down to the idiot lights and bone stock look. I don't look at it as an investment, but as something unique and intrinsically worthwhile as it came from Detroit.
My list of reasons would be miles long and could fill a book or at least couple of lengthy chapters, but doesn't really include your suggested "desecration", since I have nothing against what someone desires to do with their car.
I may not agree with their decision, but I'm not going to loose sleep over it either.
I've already made some of my views about "Boomers" clear here before and clarifying or adding more would likely at least severely annoy, if not anger many on this and other forums dedicated to old car hobby.
Besides, all one has to do is to pay attention what seemingly most "Boomers" involved with this hobby are thinking or how they're approaching it, it should become clear enough, although it took me nearly 30 out of my 45+ years of full-time involvement/pre-occupation with it to realize extent of it and have been experiencing/seeing evidence of it almost daily ever since (including today).
Autolite 4001 windshield wiper motor 48 DeSoto
in Technical
Posted · Edited by TTR (see edit history)
I agree, but would go as far as recommend testing it even before re-wiring, and if it works, take it completely apart for full service (including re-wiring) before installing it.
Or install it "as is", but without connecting power source to prevent any likely failures, including electrical fire.