22touring

My machinist pressed on the drive gear and the front pulley without having to heat them. He reamed the i.d. of the pulley a little bit because it was a little wallowed out oval-shaped and therefore fit too tight. I am quite satisfied with the water pump shaft that I bought from Tom and Cindy Myers, which is probably the same as the ones also sold by Romar, et al. Everything on it was very accurate. We are lucky that parts like this are being reproduced. Everything fit the holes in the engine block, and I think I kept the timing correct. Later edit: the first time I installed the assembly to the block, the holes for the gear case and the water pump did not line up with those in the block. The water pump was about 1/16" too far back on the shaft. I took the water pump apart and removed all of the thrust washers that I had thought were Such A Good Idea, so that the pump and shaft could slide forward, essentially letting the position of the drive gear and its case determine the position of the shaft and water pump. There is about 3/16" or so of fore and aft clearance between the drive gear and its case, so this lets the shaft and pump slide backwards and forwards about that far, and then the mounting holes on the gear case and the water pump lined up OK. So to this extent I am going to respectfully disagree with nearchoc Doug about having the water pump impeller determine the position of the shaft. After this, all I've got to do is paint and mount the front fenders and splash shield, and I'll be pretty much done with this restoration. Of course I will probably have just as many problems installing the fenders as I had with the water pump, so it will probably take longer than I think it will.

I'm going to take the entire assembly to my LFM and have him press on both the drive gear and the front pulley. I'll be sure to ask him afterwards what method he used to press them on, and whether he had to use heat or not, and report back later.

"Put it in a box and mail it to either Romar or Myers." Ha, ha, that is funny, Doug, but I am too dumb and stubborn to do that. I got the water pump installed on the shaft with nice end play by using 5/8" X 1/16" bronze thrust washers and paper gaskets. My only problem is pressing the drive gear onto the shaft. There seems to be a tiny bit of an interference fit, so what if I press the gear onto the shaft and the keyway doesn't line up with the key, which it probably wouldn't? Will I be able to turn the gear to line the keyway up, or is this something I should have my friendly local machinist do for me instead? Nat was right: I had the impeller on backwards because I didn't understand how it works. If you picture its vanes as scallop-shaped, with a concave side and a convex side, it flings the water off the back of the convex side rather than scooping it with the concave side. Thanks for saving my bacon, Nat.

Per Nat's suggestion, I drilled and tapped the impeller for a 1/4" x 28 TPI pointed-head set screw. I believe it is the pump impeller that determines the fore and aft position of the shaft, and since you've got to move the shaft forward enough so that the front pulley clears the crankcase, the location of the impeller is critical. The hole for the 3/16" pin through my impeller was not drilled on the center line of the impeller, so when it is installed correctly on the new shaft, with the set screw tightened in the hole, the Woodruff key sticks out from the side of the impeller about 1/16" or 3/32". This will never work, right? It would immediately chew up the bushing in the water pump body. I believe the impeller should be centered over the Woodruff key; correct? Should I weld up the old hole, center the impeller over the Woodruff key, and drill a divot in the correct position for the set screw?

Minibago wrote: "If the water pump is working water will flow from the head return pipe." I thought the water pump on a 4-cylinder car sucked water out of the bottom of the radiator and pumped it up the hose that goes into the top of the block near the front (that's what it says on page 44 of my BOI). When you say "from", do you mean "out of the top of", or "out of the bottom of", Minibago?

Doug, thanks a lot for the info. Pardon me for being clueless, but can you please tell me how much end play should the shaft have, and how do you adjust it? This seems to be covered in neither the BOI nor the MIM. Does anybody remember any good threads on the subject in this forum?

Yes, Nat, even a nail which is only 9/64" in diameter only wants to go through the impeller and into the shaft less than 1/4", whereas the pin is 3/16" in diameter. I haven't yet decided what I'm going to do about this.

Did the water pump and gear cover come from the factory painted DB green, like yours are, Minibago, or black? Mine were black when I bought my car. I would like to paint them the correct color before I re-install them. Later edit: the rebuilt engine pictured on the Romar website shows the gear cover painted green like the engine, and the water pump black, so that's what I'm going to do.

I made a typo, editing mistake or brain flatulence earlier when I said that I have the 2-unit engine. I have the original single-unit engine with the Northeast Electric starter-generator and the N.E. Electric distributor, from November of 1922. Whoever is doing the machine work on the water pump shafts sold by Tom and Cindy Myers for the distributor cars seems to be doing a good job. Its diameter was within a tenth of a thousandth along its entire length. My old water pump impeller, the drive gear and the bushings all fit nicely, but the front pulley is going to be a bit of a tight fit. I'm going to have to beat it onto the front end of the shaft with a plastic hammer, and would like to do it on the bench so I can back up the shaft as I pound it on. I'm not seeing any reason why I can't install the entire unit, including the front pulley, onto the engine block all at once. N'est-ce pas?

I'm going to pack the water pump shaft and gland nuts on my single-unit motor the old-fashioned way because I don't have my act together enough to use modern seals. Can anybody point me to a discussion about how you go about installing the packing correctly? I haven't a clue about what kind of packing material to use, or how it is done! I'm sure this must have been discussed in the past on this forum, but I searched and couldn't find anything. Thanks again.

Thanks, Minibago!

When removing the water pump shaft from a single-unit 4-cylinder motor, I believe you are supposed to remove the front cover of the drive gear housing at the front of the engine; loosen up all the gland nuts on the shaft; remove the distributor and coil unit; remove the bolts holding the water pump to the engine block; and then pull the water pump and shaft backwards until the shaft comes out of its drive gear. You leave the drive gear in place on its chain inside its housing and then insert the new shaft into it in the same position the old one was, without disturbing the orientation of the drive gear. I.e.,you pull the shaft out backward, not forward, and you leave the drive gear in place. Does that sound correct, Brethren?

I have front and rear Buckeye bumpers on my '22 tourer, Todd. When I bought the car back in 1985, I believe they were in their original condition and were painted in black enamel.

I think I am going to keep using LUB 164 in my '22 tourer because I have been quite happy with it.

Todd, also check whether you are getting full opening of the throttle butterfly when you floor the gas pedal. The armored cable going from the starter switch to the battery box interferes with the movement of the gas pedal linkage unless you position both of them carefully.

I finally realized that I had mislabeled these brackets. They really support my "Buckeye" aftermarket rear bumper where it attaches to the back of the 3/4-eliptical springs on each side. The curved side of the bracket rests on the spring and the little arm rests on the outside of the spring's pin bushing so the bumper won't droop down. Buckeye bumpers were made by the Central Brass and Fixture Co. of Springfield, Ohio. Buckeye bumpers for the DB were pretty plain, but their bumpers for other makes were fancier:

After most of the Dodge Brothers Corporation's assets were sold to Chrysler, it continued in existence and tried to depreciate, after the fact and as a matter of obsolescence, "the model and design of the Dodge 4-cylinder automobile". DB claimed a large tax overpayment and demanded a refund thereof. The IRS held that DB was impermissibly trying to depreciate business goodwill in violation of the IRS's rules, and the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on the case in 1941, agreeing with the IRS and disallowing the claimed depreciation. The case contains an interesting historical narrative of the corporation. Dodge Brothers v. United States, 118 F.2d 95 (4th Cir. 1941) :: Justia

Brothers, can you tell me where what I have labeled as a "gas tank bracket" is supposed to be located on my late '22 tourer? I should have taken a picture of this before disassembling it; the car has been apart for at least 2 years; and I have totally forgotten where this part belongs! What is it supposed to clamp to? I would appreciate it if somebody would kindly help me out. Thanks very much.

Todd, I think my late '22 model has its floors restored pretty much stock, except that the replacement aluminum edge trim that I used has a top overhang that is too wide (9/16") because it was all I could find at the time. I replaced only part of the edge trim and left the remainder original. The original edge trim had a top overhang of only 5/16". I'm pretty sure you can get the exact original type online these days.

Great! Sorry if I introduced any red herrings by failing to note that the DB parts sellers call this a "1916-26" water pump shaft, 1916 being presumably when DB switched from magneto to distributor ignition(?)

Thank you very much for this information, TonyAus and Minibago. I don't understand this completely, and I certainly am glad that you told me I need to understand it for my car to run correctly. I'll compare my old shaft to the new one and talk to my machinist if necessary. However, I emailed Tom Myers, who has been a real "stand-up" kind of guy in all of our transactions, and he seemed to indicate that all I need to do is move the rotor. So I hope you can see why I am having a hard time understanding this. What would be the practical effect of having your valve timing out-of-whack by using a reproduction water pump shaft, and just re-pointing the rotor? Do you think the engine would lose a lot of power?

So what TonyAus wrote applies only to magneto-equipped engines??

I took the fan pulley from my single-unit 4-cylinder engine to the machinist because it was wobbling, and I thought its inner diameter was wallowed out. However, the machinist pointed out that the pulley's I.D. is just fine, and it is the front end of the water pump shaft that is beaten down. So I really need to replace the water pump shaft. I've bought a new one from Tom and Cindy Myers, am ready to install it, and sure wish another Brother would give me a short lesson on how to do so. I have read the Mechanic's Instruction Manual and have searched this forum, but haven't found any instructions for doing the job. Once I've removed the shaft, I guess I've got to press the impeller off it? And I'm going to need to break the starter/generator chain in order to remove the shaft, right? Any tips for maintaining the correct camshaft and distributor timing when doing so? Thanks again.

While restoring my '22 touring car, I discovered that Zoro.com has every kind of screw imaginable, including ones that I found impossible to find elsewhere, such as the nickel-plated cheese-head ones with a tall head and locking nut (interference-thread type), and nickel-plated old-fashioned-type wing nuts (with the low wings). Later edit: when assembling the front fenders to the frame, Zoro.com seemed to be the only place I could find square-headed 5/16" x 1" 18 TPI bolts (equivalent to the part no. 13962 "running board to bracket bolts" at p. 248 of the Master Parts List) that go through the 4 front fender retaining clips (part no. 5413, also on p. 248).

So if a fellow sandblasted his Dodge Bros. front fenders, but then Life Intervened and he didn't get them painted right away so they developed slight-to-moderate surface rust, should this fellow just give them another light sandblasting before painting, or can anybody suggest an alternative preferable method of dealing with the surface rust?