Gunsmoke
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Posts posted by Gunsmoke
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So I spent a few days cleaning rust off the myriad wheel, brake drum, and suspension parts. It is puzzling just why the rust seemed to appear so quickly and what it looks like. In a before/after photo below of the passenger front spring, the rust is significant. However, to clean it, mild wire brush work (on drill) took 95% of it off and it appeared in mostly powdered form, like the applied paint had just turned to orange powder. The parts have also had an initial cleaning with brake cleaner, and before painting with DOM 16 will be subject to a final cleaning. I was advised that the pieces did not need to be sandblasted (freed of all evidence of rust) but just cleaned of all loose rust, dirt, grime, oil etc. So time will tell, I plan to paint these pieces in next few days, and depending on how that goes, decide on further steps for rest of chassis, engine side pans, oil pan etc, etc. NO FUN!
BTW, there have been discussions over the years on springs, to paint or leave natural and/or apply oil/grease now and then. What are suggestions?
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I see on Hemmings daily feed that a rare event is about to occur, a 1962 Ferrari GTO is set to head to the auction block in November, and not just any such car (of 36 produced), but the only Scuderia Ferrari Factory raced one of these cars. For over 30 years I've had a 1/18" diecast model of this car that may be my favorite car of all time, and I expect the car will challenge the record books when the hammer falls. $100M, more, less?
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As said, many companies specialize in conveyor belt type products, they usually have scraps free. Typically 1/4" thick, cuts easily, and can be made thinner by carefully peeling off a layer. Also punches holes easily with a sharp punch.
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Architectural history and evolution of "skyscrapers" follows a pattern much like the evolution of the automobile, and a similar time frame. Although highrise steel structured buildings date from about 1890, the first "skin and bones" such structure was designed in 1921 by Mies Van Der Rohe, renowned German-American architect. He envisaged that a properly designed steel carcass could easily support a full glass skin and thus save significantly in cost, material etc. He and Walter Gropius founded the Bauhaus movement which along with others became a foundation of the modernist movement in Architecture. As we know, in the same first 50 years of the 20th century similar leaps were taking place in the automotive field, but the design concepts were not always universally developed. Design philosophies in Europe (clean, light, focus on technical excellence) varied from those North America where thru the middle of the century the philosophy was big, flamboyant and marketing. So while buildings like Lever House was perhaps ahead of its time and very modern, '50's American cars for a 10 year period were largely fat cats, appealing to a suddenly affluent populace after WWII. A major difference between buildings and cars: Cars were expected to be done after 15 years or so while buildings such as Lever House would have been designed for a 100+ year life. (Hope members will forgive my Architectural History Lesson).
BTW, for those of you who may not be familiar with Mies Van Der Rohe, look him up, he designed this world famous "Barcelona Chair" in 1929, sold by Knoll, you can still pick one up brand new for about $8,000! I sat in one a few years ago, very comfortable.
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Great looking car and story. But sounds like current possessor may not have title? Someone "gave it to him in lieu of a debt" raises all sorts of questions of title. Hopefully some sort of legal "transfer of ownership" document exists to confirm title and that may say exactly what car was registered as. I assume state titling office can provide some paper on it's most recent registration, such as owner, serial#, when last licensed and by whom. Otherwise, could take some time and expense to obtain clear title.
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I personally wish AACA moderators would ban members from simply uploading articles from sites like msn. We are all capable of searching for such articles if we want them. Postings on here should be of things posters want to discuss and should start with the posters own thoughts on the topic, not some uploaded junk.
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Terry B, I assume your primary ask is regarding the use of "vintage" when applied to old cars. Like many words borrowed from other languages or from other fields (pardon the pun), the new usage gets often immediately changed from what it was initially. Vintage is indeed a French word first used in the wine industry (Vin for Wine) and as a noun was defined as -'the year or place in which wine, especially wine of high quality, was produced". Later it was used as an adjective meaning - "relating to or denoting wine of high quality".
So the intent of the word is to refer to wine (or something) as "in the past, and of high quality".
Now as time passes, people misuse words all the time and the original meaning/intent gets lost. A word like Vintage can take on a dozen meanings, such as old (regardless of quality), old (regardless of age), original (regardless if it is original), and applied to cars, books, furniture, music, from just about anywhere. So if I use the word in relation to cars or parts, I'm thinking old and of high quality. The rest of you can pick your definition.
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The Delahaye cars remind me of Faberge Eggs, so exquisite sculpted and finished, but that French Blue Delahaye Roadster/Racer is awesome, don't know if they had much racing success, but it sure looks ready to rumble!
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Short WB and narrow windshield suggest maybe Austin Bantam?
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I've enjoyed following this thread, especially when one of "our own" was in the hunt, congrats edinmass for your team's well deserved win. I also watched some of the live stream, amazing cars. I think of the cars in 2 categories equivalent to Cabin Cruisers and Speedboats. The Cabin Cruisers are and were meant to be large, luxurious, expensive, superlatively detailed and maintained, and clearly with snob/money appeal. The Speedboats on the other hand were for racing and handling the water conditions, with few creature comforts, but lots of pure engineering and attention to purpose. The latter are by far my preference. Of the 4 finalists (2 Mercedes, a Delahaye and an Alfa Romeo Roadster), the Alfa was my choice. I often think there should be 2 BOS, one for the yachts, one for the road cars/racers, though to pick between the 2, the nature of the judging panel likely makes the difference.
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Nice car, front seat wear suggests maybe 238K!
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Thanks bloo & cudaman for clarifying "fore door", me coming from a maritime area, I was contemplating it differentiated from "aft door", i.e. rear door, but thought that might be too obvious. Never heard the term used before, learn something new everyday.
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Do the math, someone buys for $1.8M, spends $2M rebuilding, and with a correct serial # has invested $3.8M on a car likely worth $4.5-$5M when finished, if the plan is to sell at all. What better and more enjoyable way to park your money when you have it to spare. The videos and rebuild process will be fascinating to many of us. Oh to be in that league!
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Interesting car and informative post I haven't read previously. I assume the "fore door" in title topic is a typo? Or does it mean something not obvious? Is car really a 1 door or 2 door?
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C'mon fellas, we all are in this for the same reasons, hobby, pleasure, fun of bringing old, and often rare cars back to life, and in most cases then cherishing them. Most of us I suspect don't keep track of the expense (within reason) or time (often thousands of un-priced hours) too carefully, as the enjoyment and camaraderie is worth it all. So this buyer is no different. Has the money, so expense is not too big a deal, and likely the time will be someone else's. So I say great news, another rare Ferrari will technically be back on the scene in full glory, and even if it is only 10%-30% original, who will really care, maybe only the 1/2 dozen other '54 Ferrari owners, who will not have anywhere near as interesting story to tell!. Better than leaving that crushed dream just sitting there.
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Since I'm not a fan of WWW's for many reasons including cost, maintenance, and lack of originality in many cases, I find this thread interesting and am surprised someone has not suggested reverting to all black, problem solved!
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hmmm... Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac?
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Headlight buckets were same for CD8 and CD*deluxe so no clue there. For some part of production the side raised areas were add-on strips, and some later had strip pressed into the bucket I think.
OP car is definitely a 1st/2nd series CD8 as it has gauges in straight line (versus curved gauges for CD* as shown here) with a drum style speedo versus needle type in CD Deluxe, and it has side vents in cowl (Deluxe had no side vents as noted in photo below).
The 3 chrome ribs added to rear fender likely came off an Imperial CG, have never seen them on an original CD car. CD8 and CD* rear fenders have same part #.
Production numbers indicate about 22,000 CD8's were produced in 1931 for all models (Sedans, Coupes, Roadsters etc) including 13,041 1st/2nd series cars and 7,956 Deluxe series cars. Regarding chassis #'s I'm not sure what they started with, perhaps 10001, and if so, 14879 would be #4879 off the line. I don't know if chassis serial numbers remained sequential between 2nd and 3rd series as 3rd series had some chassis modifications. For what it's worth, total production records for CD8 Roadsters show 1,331 for 1st/2nd series, and 436 for Deluxe CD* series, for a total of 1,767 Roadsters for all 3 series. First shipment of 44 cars happened in June 1930 and last shipment June 1932 with a clear out of 56 cars after shipping only 16 in previous 8 months. Since 1931 was only year for a Chrysler 8 cyl Roadster, it would be interesting to know where the final 56 got shipped to.
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hmmm... crimping tool?
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In regard to your cars color, my research a while back found there were the only 5 standard color schemes available for 1931 Chrysler CD8 Roadsters. Cannot recall where I found this, but it seemed genuine. The Roadster in the sales brochure was black with black fenders, cat's eye wheels and beltline, ivory striping. For the full Chrysler Model spectrum (6's & 8's, Sedans, Coupes, etc), there were dozens of color options, including several blue shades, maroons, greens, even a couple of yellows.
1931 Chrysler Roadster Original Color Schemes
Body Moldings and Fenders Stripes Wheels
Cossack Brown (IM-444) Gray Green (IM-827) Gold Bronze
Smoke Gray (IM-840) Pembroke Gray (IM-878) Extra Perm. Vermillion
Auto Gray Dark (IM-924) Brewster Gray Dark (IM-499) Carmine
Black Cat’s Eye Green (IM-374) Packard Ivory Cat’s Eye green & Ivory
Royal Maroon Deep (IM-945) Black Extra Perm Vermillion
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I envisage someone with a ho-hum 4 dr Sedan with a nicely restored and running chassis taking this body and swapping bodies and chassis. Then selling the Sedan on this chassis and having a much more desirable car, albeit a non-numbers matching one! Lovely lines on this car, almost allows me to ignore those awful looking headlights, which I would be replacing with the optional standard ones.
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Nice catch Varun, never heard of one, but nonetheless, good to know at least one still exists.
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Thanks JJ, my shorter one came on a CD8 donor car and visually looks like yours in size and appearance. On mine, the stamping # is on inside in area abutting chassis. Would it be possible for you to measure distance from face of round area of pitman arm to end of sector shaft? Looks to be about 1/2"-5/8"? (i.e. depth of lock washer and nut.) I'm looking for a correct nut, I think sector gear thread on mine is 7/8"x16tpi. While the pitman arm nut (in parts list) is same part for CD8 cars and CD* (deluxe) cars, the Chrysler pre 1934 parts book indicates the pitman arm and sector gear (worm wheel) are different for the CD8 and the Deluxe CD*. So I am now curious if the shorter arm I have might be off a Deluxe CD*? If you can find stamping, that may tell me something. Meanwhile, if anyone has a spare CD8/Deluxe CD* pitman arm nut, let me know?
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I've also posted this issue on my '31 Chrysler CD8 Rebuild Diary on WPC site. I need help deciphering the 2 steering arms (aka pitman arms). Both of these pitman arms (Chrysler refers to them as steering arms) came to me as Chrysler arms, and I'm trying to determine just what they are. Both "sort of" fit the spline on the sector shaft for my '31 CD8 steering box, but will not go fully on. The longer, one is 10" and has holes 8" C/C, is 1" thick and goes on spline about 11/16" and is stamped F-20176-1-1 (? Jan '31?). The shorter arm (which came on a '31 Chrysler 8 cyl donor car) is 8.5" long and 6.5" CC, is 1" thick and also goes on spline about 11/16" and is stamped F-21422. Neither of these part/casting numbers matches the steering arms listed in the pre 1934 Chrysler parts list for all Chrysler models. Normally I would expect a pitman arm to go almost fully onto the spline,,i.e. a 1" thick arm would go on about 7/8"-15/16". So thinking these may be for slightly different spline.
Can someone check other Mopar models parts list, Dodge etc and tell me if these stamping #'s show up? Or does anyone know the specific details for a CD8 steering arm. Chrysler lists the CD8 steering arm as part # 314607. And, should the arm go on spline almost fully? Thanks.
Another "Holy Grail" car heading to Auction, 1962 Ferrari GTO.
in General Discussion
Posted
The '62 GTO and the early '70's Daytonas were aimed at 2 different markets. The GTO was Alpha Male, top of the food order, take no prisoners car, purposeful design for one purpose, racing, with only 3 dozen made. The Dayton was sleek and 1400 produced, but I find hood length is too long, don't like the way rear windows disappear into roofline, and that recessed beltline is needless cosmetics (would look better without it). And don't ever take photo with lights on, a problem with most hidden headlight cars. They are a fine car no doubt, but that Grrrrrr....TO, worth about 30x the money I'm guessing.