Gunsmoke
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Posts posted by Gunsmoke
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I assume prices are in Canadian dollars (reduce by 30%to translate to US$). In my humble opinion, the asking prices are at or above high end of market, and a $10K reduction in most of the prices would move these cars. Often what happens is owners get over their heads financially restoring cars like these and don't want to lose money, so hold on looking for that "one buyer". And we all know the newer generations (any one under 50) have little interest in pre 50's cars, prefer muscle cars and stuff more reliable. So like everything else in the consumer world, supply and demand.
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I was thinking Kiss'l!! Appears to be a partially "colorized" photo.
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"Idle hands are the devil's workshop". Some might suggest that is the case for me. I've been mulling over the issue of just what to do to in rebuilding the Roadster, with the 3 options (1) go completely original including clam shell fenders and running boards, (2) go for original style fenders customized at back edge and no running boards, and (3) go for cycle style fenders, no running boards and relocate sidemount spare closer to body and door. I got in touch with American Muscle Car Parts (eBay vendor) and they sent be a couple of their rear/front fender blanks with the notion I could mark what I want on them as far as bead, length, and details etc, and return one to them and they will make a custom pair. Their blanks are 10.5" wide, same dimension as my rears. My plan if I go this route would be as shown in one picture, to modify them at top so they can be slipped over existing fender brace and blind bolt to brace as per original fronts. Note fender is shown in a photo below brace as it cannot sit on top of brace without cutting blank. I will make a second steel brace that will bolt to underside of frame and to underside of inner lower face of fender, pretty standard practice. A pair of finished fenders (beaded all around, wire reinforced lip, from AMCP will cost circa $1000 in bare steel.
For the rears, one of my originals is rough, needs a fair bit of work to make straight and smooth. The rears require more depth and length than AMCP can accomplish with their universal stampings. However the excess metal on a raw stamping, has enough metal when re-straightened to do the job. So I will use the blank I have to see how it fits against the inner fender area of rear tub, and decide if I want them to try something, or get a pair of blanks and have my body man do something, or just keep my rear originals and fix them.
Personally, I like the cycle style front for these cars, many roadsters in period used that approach, especially in Europe (Bentley, Alvis, Alfa, others). By keeping front fender braces original, a future revert to original style fenders is a relatively easy change.
As shown, I moved spare tire mount (actually the fender well brace) back about 12" and bolted it to same area as the rear engine mount brackets. This locates spare in a good spot, about centered on cowl band, and allowing door to open nearly fully. I will need to make a cradle to bolt to the brace to go under tire and rise at center to take the original spare wheel locking mechanism, I show the spare wheel clamping bar. The spare wheel clamp thru cowl will hold top of spare in place with 2 leather straps. I will use same device on pas and driv sides. The brace will also help with transition between custom side apron back to rear fenders, and forward frame apron in hood area, both of which I have made patterns for.
As anyone knows who has followed this diary, this project has been a challenging one. Bringing a rare but poorly cared for and altered Roadster back to a car to be driven and enjoyed has been a slog. My vision is to just get there, without disrespecting the car or it's pedigree. Some will shake their heads, some applaud, some will be indifferent. As usual, only one will matter, the owner!
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These are such great looking cars and show so well. I hope you are able to get it cleaned up and paint is OK to present as it is. Of course it depends on what you intend to do with the car. A good shop should be able to refurbish paint without a full respray. Can we assume mechanicals are good to go pretty much "as is"? If major mechanical work needs to be done, that may affect painting decision.
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Interesting opening car Fargoguy, a good friend who passed away recently had same car, here it is at show circa 2017. I understand these came out mid-year 1964?
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Like most things in life, our own personal experience often frames our own personal view, even though we admit our experiences are usually just anecdotal. As such we need to remember they are not representative of everyone's experience.
I've restored/rebuilt 2 cars, doing mostly my own work when I can. However when I need a shop/specialist, I ask people who have been in the hobby a lot longer than me who they suggest. Had an near 80 yr old do a lot of excellent body work in his home garage (based on a recommendation), and had 2 different restoration shops do work (based on a recommendation), one small one/two man operation, a second larger one. Their work was excellent, pricey, but I knew beforehand "you get what you pay for". These shops are a huge and valuable resource for the hobby, without them most of our cars would collect dust in the back of a garage. Sure there are corner-cutters and posers out there, but it does not take much of an effort to find them out and they don't usually last long. Like everything in life, do your homework and you will get along just fine.
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moderator or poster, please change title to "What's your experience with Restoration Shops, good and bad". Thanks
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Reality Check: I've refurbished a 1931 Chev Coach (2008-2017) and currently doing a 31 Chrysler Roadster (2014-present). Even if you decided to refurbish the car to running order without major cosmetic work (no repaint, no rechrome, no reupholstery)(3 jobs that will cost $30K minimum), virtually every one of the 3000+ parts on this car will need attention. So you need at least 500 ft sq (about 20x25 minimum) of dedicated floor space for a period of 5-10 years to undertake the project, assuming you are tackling most of the disassembly, refurbishing and reassembly yourself.
Most likely the drivetrain will be the most expensive rebuild issue ($10K perhaps)(not worth tackling if you don't include a good engine rebuild), unless you are lucky enough to find a running engine, which is very unlikely. Springs and steering will likely need disassembly, clean up, lubricating and reassembly. wiring is probably not safe, a harness alone might cost you $1000. 5 new tires and tubes,$2500. Re-spoking the wheels, $2000. sorting out brakes, who knows. I haven't even talked about the wood frame, a time consuming job even if you have decent old patterns. Then there is the roof replacement, glass, wipers, lights, finding bumpers, etc ,etc, etc. So, even a good refurbishment will likely cost in excess of $25K-$30K (without paint, upholstery, chrome) plus your free labor.
You can probably buy this car (or one very similar) already somewhat restored and running for $10K-$20K. So there you are. Unless the car has some sort of very special meaning for you, I think the task will far outlast your patience and money.
If you do decide to proceed, then I applaud you. You will find great support, encouragement and advice on this forum.
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I don't mind it at all, looks like it could have been a period custom or prototype, although design success would rest on a solution for top, both up and folded. I like these types of sporty models without running boards, gave them a racier look. As for painting it, why not.
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So that would be your Great Grandmother's friend (I'd guess Anne, Mary, Elizabeth, Susan or Lillian!) A wonderful photo of a likely rare early and high end car. it will be interesting to see if one survives.
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Glad you figured it out. Many of the cars in the 30's 40's eras were set up to suit "average Joes", and men in particular were on average 3"-4" shorter than today's average. So seats were forward generally and had little adjustment compared to today. My '31 Chrysler Roadster had a fixed bench seat tucked under the steering wheel as shown, but had a split back that could move about 2" fore/aft on a scissor mechanism on driver-side only. I'm only 5-10, and it is a tight fit for me! all seats were missing from my car (and are unobtainium) but I was able to get one from a '32 Dodge Coupe, seat and back are fixed. works for me, but someone much over 6' would have a challenge. My car's steering column does have a 3 position vertical adjustment which helps with the knees.
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A while ago I mentioned that the steering arm nut that came with the old CD8 donor sedan was wrong pitch for the sector gear. Gear is threaded 7/8" 16TPI while the nut that came on car was only partly on, and turned out to be 7/8" 14TPI. The sedan had been hit hard on driver side many years ago (even bent steering column), so it appears someone during repair perhaps lost original nut and substituted wrong size. Regardless it left me to find a correct nut, 7/8x16TPI hex, full flat on inner face, 7/16" high, for 1.5" wrench. Absolutely nothing suitable available from all the normal sources, so bought a short piece of 1.5" hex and had a shop make me a couple (I have a spare sector gear and nut if someone needs one). Cost about $40US a pair.
The threaded part of the sector gear exposed when steering arm is on is about 1/2". As a result, when nut is put on without a lock washer, end of gear is about 1/16" beyond nut, which seems about right. Since the old sedan came with a regular 7/8" lock washer I tried it on the spare sector gear shown, and this causes the nut to not fully engage the sector gear, by about 1/16".
So I went to the pre 1934 Chrysler master parts list, and it shows this nut in one illustration (with what appears to be an unlisted lock washer) and a second illustration with no lock washer. The parts list includes for a variety of steering arm nuts for most models including a specific nut for P, PT, V, CD and *CD (part #79761). It lists a steering arm lock washer for all models except P,PT,V, CD and *CD. So I am left to figure the CD8 did not rely on a lock washer for securing steering arm to sector gear, and only perhaps 100 lbs of torque. I suppose an option would be to use an "outer edge star" type washer, typically less than 1/16" thick when compressed.
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Opposite in UK, no, the red, left, port is international standard, regardless of any nations peculiar internal rules of the road.
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Yes, I have ben restoring my 1931 Chrysler CD8 roadster for about 8 years with Hagerty Insurance based on my assessment of current value as $20K. It is probably time to update the value. Since the premium is based on value insured, they don't require an independent appraisal. Mind you, if I gave them a very high value, they might ask for an independent appraisal, pictures etc. They are wonderful to deal with in my experience, have had cars insured with them for 15 years.
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My easy way to remember these terms is all the short words go together (red, left, port) and all the long words go together (green, right, starboard). Since no one today will understand the port/starboard message, you might consider saving the original jewels and putting a pair of orange jewels in as side marker lights and tell people LaSalle's were way ahead of their time.
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Great club project, I'm surprised we don't hear of more club projects like these. I realize someone has to take the initiative and offer/find a space to do it all (at least 600 ft sq for 6-12 months)), and that is often a challenge. Thanks for taking this on and keeping us posted.
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It is referred to as a "Front Wheel Hub Dust Washer Assembly", in Pre 1934 Chrysler Master Parts list, (page C-2-B, part 11 in illustration) and on page C-22-9 in Wheels group it is listed as Chrysler part #50342, code R (model 75) and is same for code J (Model 72)and code W (Model 77). Now if you are looking for a seal manufacturer's #, that is another story.
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Here is a sample 1931 Chrysler CD8 power plant photo from a project being restored somewhere, in this case restorer installed B/C pedals on drivetrain before painting it, but left engine color only below floor. From my experience, trying to paint large objects with interference from items standing away from the object is very inconvenient, as "paint shadow" get cast as well as the difficulty of getting paint to al the faces of the pedal shafts in this case. But what do I know, I was born 15 years later! Still cannot imagine blue/green pedals in the driver compartment, certainly have never see one.
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3rd photo is very close to ones used for for 1931 Chrysler headlight mount, passenger side, perhaps used on other Mopars as well. Fits on end of a cross bar, and bolts to fender bracket thru fender. Dimensions would confirm which model.
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I have a pair of photos of driver and pass side door threshold pieces for the Roadster. They appears to be aluminum with an interesting pressed in "art deco" design. I plan on making a pair soon, they are pretty simple to form, about 3" on the vertical and a rolled lip of about 3/4" and same piece will fit either side. There is a slight modification at rear post location to deal with the original post to frame riveted bracket. About 24"+ long and have about 5/16" curve fore and aft. Thinking I may approach a local laser etching company and see what they can suggest to replicate the original Chrysler pattern which is about 2"high x 22" long, leaving a clear margin all around.. That would likely have to be done on a flat piece and forming made afterward. Anyone made these? Also, the photos show some evidence of paint in parts of the pattern, anyone know what factory ones looked like. These are missing from most CD8's I find. BTW, I assume they have 8 dark bars at center because it is a straight eight? I may get CHRYSLER centered in opening, or the Caligraphic C. but who knows.
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While we can conjecture all sorts of "who knows", reality is it was convenient and very judicious to assemble "short" engine (water pump included but no starter/gen/manifolds etc), bell housing and transmission and paint in one piece. The top of block would likely be masked off and silver colored head and gasket added later. All the related add-ons, starter and pedal, generator, B/C pedals, oil filter housing, head, fan, manifolds, wire loom, etc would never have a reason to be anything but black. Most such parts were often coming from a different source and also used on different models/makes (like Dodge DC8 versus Chrysler CD8). But, if anyone wants to paint their pedals or any other add-on a different color than black, go for it.
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With a range of interior color schemes being used at the time, I cannot imagine they used any color but black for the B/C pedals. While the engine and bell housing and transmission may have been painted as a complete assembly (they were all green/grey/blue on my 1931 CD8), they all were in engine bay and below floor, pedals would have been installed later and were black for my car as were starter pedal, accelerator, steering column etc. Introducing the engine blue into driver compartment is something I have never seen.
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Found this photo on internet, lists as 1927 Paige 6-45 Coupe, note door seems to match OP. The enlarged photo below of OP hub/grease cap seems to show a diamond pattern logo in center of cap, perhaps a Paige logo as shown below, they used both a white diamond with dark letters like this, and also a dark diamond with white letters. So likely as mentioned above, some circa 1926/27 model of Paige/Jewett company product. Note how belt line ends on top of rear fender like in OP.
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Don't think we are done yet. Note that the window door glass comes down to what appears perhaps an upper bead without a further distance to top bead such as is shown in all suggestions so far. 8 bolt hub, 5 wheel rim lugs, relatively small/short trunk lid with very modest handle, built in roof overhang, etc suggests a basic car, looked at many, no cigar.
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Brightwork. Polished or rechromed?
in General Discussion
Posted
I have a friend who has a nice set of buffing wheels set up and a variety of powders/pastes to polish up stainless. The results can be very nice. mind you, it requires pieces to be removed from car, and a little bit of trial and error to get a uniform sheen. This method will expose and highlight some little dings not often obvious in a original piece, but usually not many ways to remove dings without making things worse unless you have a lot of hand tools for tapping things smooth and leather stuffed bags. The nice thing about polished stainless, is once refinished, they will shine for a long time.