ralphnof49 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 While the transmission was removed and preparing to install rebuilt one, we thought the engine rear seal should be replaced. However pieces of the old seal were found in the bell housing under the clutch as seen in the photo. I will need to drop the oil pan to put in a new seal but am concerned about knowing how the old seal came apart. The seal was only 5 or 6 years old as it was replaced when the engine was rebuilt. Have others seen this happen and what ideas are there for installing the new one to prevent it happening again? Is it best to pull the engine or can this be done under the car on a lift? Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.E.Butcher Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Mr. ralphnor49, I was waiting for someone else to jump on here and give their explanation, so I'll give my "2cts" worth. Since you may still have your car up on the lift, you will have to drop the pan . Check the crank and see if there is a rough spot or a "digg" in the crank surface. Some thing shredded that seal. It also looks to be dry. These should be soaked in oil a day or 2 before installing. Perhaps you are a member of "The Lincoln Zephyr's Owners Club", if not please join. In the club magazine, March/April '22; their is a reprint of the article by Jake Fleming title " The HV-12 Rebuilding Bible". Part one. On page 25 , Jake mentions the modifying of the rear seal on the HV12. This has been known for years while rebuilding the HV12. This could be of interest to you since you have gone this far. Good Luck and let us know what you find-=--- Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abelincoln Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 The original V-12's used an oil slinger instead of a seal. Likely someone has put in a Ford rear seal If so, did the slinger get ground off the crankshaft? Possibly the upper seal holder is in wrong? I'd get new Ford parts and start over. Abe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 Thanks for the ideas. We will take the oil pan off in about 2 weeks as I need to coordinate with my son and son-in-law. When the engine was rebuilt the slinger was removed and the new Ford seal installed so we will check for for anything that might catch the seal and start it to come apart. It seems the tricky part will be to get the seal around the crankshaft. We have the rebuilt transmission in now except for finishing the last few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przemek M Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 What is Ford part number of the rear main seal suitable for the Lincoln V12 conversion? I started disassembly of my 46 Lincoln Continental engine and I'm planning to make this recommended modification. Thanks and regards Przemek M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.E.Butcher Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Look back to Oct. 20 , I mentioned the article by Jake Fleming. He stated the main seal holders are Ford or Merc , P/N s 91A-6335 (upper ) and P/N 91B-6336. Also will need a pair of 91A-6347 seals, sometime called ropes. It has been years since I did this to my '42 LCCont. Cab. I don't have any of those notes anymore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przemek M Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 20 hours ago, L.E.Butcher said: Look back to Oct. 20 , I mentioned the article by Jake Fleming. He stated the main seal holders are Ford or Merc , P/N s 91A-6335 (upper ) and P/N 91B-6336. Also will need a pair of 91A-6347 seals, sometime called ropes. It has been years since I did this to my '42 LCCont. Cab. I don't have any of those notes anymore Thank you for the info. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 To catch up I have been a member for 10+ years and have read the Jake Fleming article. I do have the 91A-6347 seals kit and the seals were in the picture. I don't see the seal holders on Dennis Carpenter site. The same seals were in the engine so I assume(?) the seal holders should be in place. If not that could be the cause of the seal to come apart? The pieces of the old seal were wet with oil. In the Lincoln parts book the original seals were 6335 and 6336 but with Lincoln first numbers instead of Ford. Is there a source for the seal holders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted November 29, 2022 Author Share Posted November 29, 2022 We wrestled the oil pan off yesterday and found the channels for the seal are correct. Most of the seal had come out especially over the crank shaft where there was none left. I do not know why this happened but it seemed there might not have been enough oil around the seal when it was installed. I had purchased upper and lower replacement seal channels but the ones in the engine appear fine. These are part numbers 91A-6335 and 91B-6336 so these are extras. We found a tool for removing and replacing the seal over the crank shaft, it is from Lisle and called the Sneaky Pete seal tool. Now we have to clean everything and put the new seal in. Is there agreement with soaking the new seal in engine oil before installing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 We spent several hours trying to pull/ push the seal around the crank without success as the end of the seal just comes apart as we put the Sneaky Pete on it. Is there a different seal that stays together? i did soak the seal in engine oil for two days before trying to install it. Oil is needed because it is the only lube for the seal for its life, other wise the seal dries and will get shredded. It may be necessary to pull the engine and the crankshaft to get the seal in which is a huge job just to replace the seal. Does any one have a solution or can recommend someone to ask about this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 We have found it impossible to replace the seal with the crankshaft in the car because the seal has to be compressed to fit and that is too much force which causes the seal to fray apart. So the engine is out of the car and we are debating how best to rotate it on an engine stand. What do members have for advice - I can't believe that this is so difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 You need an engine stand adapter that fits on the exhaust manifold mounts. Attaching the engine to the engine stand at the bell housing could lead to the bell housing breaking and the engine falling to the floor. With the correct adapter it is difficult to control the rotation of the block, so I would recommend a buddy or replacing the seal with the block on the floor, minus the intake manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 I looked for plans to build the attachment to bolt to the exhaust manifold without success. KR Wilson made them and so did George Trickett but neither available now. Does anyone know where to find plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Spong Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Strumpy's Fab Works makes Ford and Lincoln flathead adapters that bolt to the exhaust outlets on the block. I think that they are in St.Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted December 20, 2022 Author Share Posted December 20, 2022 Thanks Colin, the adaptor looks very good. I think we will make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 We did make an adapter for the engine stand. The graphite rope seal is in installed and the engine back in the car. The seal has to have ultra RTV on the back to hold it in place. this means it cannot be soaked in oil first. To put the seal in the channel above the crank, remove the bearing cap and the seal holder and then install the seal in it and coat with engine installation lube and then the holder installed around the crank. Install the seal in the lower half of the seal holder and coat it with lube. Then the bearing cap is coated and bolted in place. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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