Guest gdiwicker Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Greetings All, Ryan here. Just received my new membership packet in the mail and am really digging the Riview. I need some advice on my 64. I have a stalling issue that happens when I've been driving for about 30 minutes to a hour around town. It's happened on the highway and while I come to a complete stop at a traffic light. Also, after I have let the car warm up in the morning, EVERYTIME I throw it in reverse for the first time, it stalls but always starts right up again. Otherwise, the car runs like a champ. I never let the tank get less than half full. I think it is either a choke, fuel pump, or carb problem. I've replaced the fuel filter, and had the electric choke adjusted. The fuel filter wasn't fouled up with gas tank junk and I could blow air through it quite easily. Still, it is stalling.Any suggestions??Thanks, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ryan,Does this happen randomly or at certain times under the same circumstances?Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest musclecarfan65 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 do you have an A/C in your car? if yes please remember that you need a special fuel filter with the breathing tube connection. in addition i think that there maybe a problem with the "venting" in the fuel system (venting lines free?). do you know if you have issues on the vented fuel tank cap? it could be also that when the car engine heats up that some parts are not alligned anymore due to different enlargment due to heat build up. do you know if someone in the past has fixed something on the car unprofessionally (like they did on my rivi?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yes, it does happen at regular intervals after I have been driving for 20-30 minutes. Also, it stalls every time when I put it in reverse after the 'cold' light turns off. Yes it has A/C, but the diaphrams for the heater door weren't functioning so those are bypassed so I can have AC here in hot as hades Houston. The correct fuel filter has three tubes, correct?Other fuel system history. The previsous onwer had sent the carter to get rebuilt and come to find out that the electric choke he installed was the wrong one for carb and MSD ingition. Before I left to drive it back from LA, the mechanic just put a automatic choke on it but put it on backwards. That's when I had my mechanic put on an electronic choke and adjust it. I trust them to do good work, so I don't know if the choke is the problem but who knows?I don't know about the vented gas cap. It looks orginal. can they fail or do they need any maintenance?Thanks, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 sounds exactly like my car several years ago. check to make sure you have the stainless steel plate between your carb and the intake manifold (plus 1 conventional composite gasket between plate and manifold). If people have been messing around with the carb and they are not 1st generation Riviera nailhead people, they probably left the stainless steel plate out. when my car acted like this, I thought it was fuel filter, fuel pump, I forget what else... drove me crazy.Gas caps on this car have rubber gasket seal to prevent fuel from pouring out on the street when you accelerate hard. The seal gets hard with age and leaks your money all over the asphalt. that is the best reason to replace an old gas cap. The gas tank on this car is vented so the gas cap does not need to be. You should check the rubber vent hose to make sure an insect has not gone up in there and made a mud nest which blocks the air from going into the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thank's I'll look into that and give you an update. Any other suggestions out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I spent some time tinkering today-nothing big but I did check out the two things Jim suggested. I looked at the gas cap and sure enough, the seal looked pretty rough. I replaced it and then looked at the vent hose. I put some small tubing down the hose and nothing was on the end of the probe hose after it was pulled out. I then blew into vent hose, and since my tank was full the air I blew vented right back out. I took her out and within ten minutes, it stalled while I was coasting. I pulled over gave her some gas and it fired up so I headed home. Within twenty yards, she stalled and I fired her up again and just threw it into neutral when I could tell she was about to die and it didn't stall until I got into the garage. The problem seems to be happening only when I'm stopped or coasting. She's only stalled once at highway speed.When I got out I checked the gas cap and no leaks where there but the end of the vent hose was wet and some had spilled on the splash guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Does your car have a dash pot in place? The dash post is designed to let the carb throttle plates close slowly to avoid them slamming shut and allowing the car to once again return to running on the idle circuits.In the attached picture, the dashpot is the diapham looking apparatus with the small coil spring on it that sits on the manifold in front of the carb linkage.Is the fast idle screw on your linkage engaging the stepped part of the carb, perhaps there's just not enough idle adjustment dialed in.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Ed, No dash pot. I'm including pictures as soon as my snapfish decides to work. I also took pictures of what I think the plate is.R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Ryan,I'm only sending you this ebay link as a reference, not a solicitation to purchase anything. In the ebay auction is a picture of the two gaskets that you need to mount a Carter AFB carburetor on a Buick nailhead engine. The fiber gasket seals the manifold to the carb, and allows the exhaust gas passover to heat the bottom of the carb. The stainless gasket transfers the heat to the base of the carb, but also acts to protect the aluminum carb from the corrosive properties of the exhaust gases. The stainless steel gasket should be obvious when you're looking at your engine.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buick-nai...sspagenameZWDVWEd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/gdiwicker/?albumview=slideshowAs I said, no dash pot. Can you see the plate? "Is the fast idle screw on your linkage engaging the stepped part of the carb, perhaps there's just not enough idle adjustment dialed in." How do I check Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The fast idle screw, as I called it, is called the throttle stop screw by Buick. It is located on the driver's side of the carb, close to the base. It is a hex shaped piece with a screw slot on the one end. There is a spring on it that is used to "lock" it in place once you get it set where you want it. It comes in contact with the steps on the of the fast idle cam. The fast idle cam is part of the main throttle body shaft. When the choke on the car is closed, the step on the cam holds the throttle blades open wider during warm up. As the engine warms, the cam rotates and a different step is exposed to the throttle stop screw.On to differnt things. For one, I notice that the AFB you have on your car is an aftermarket series 9000 Competition carb. They're primarily designed for Chevys, Chryslers, and Fords. I did notice that someone was able to rig up something to activate the kickdown; hopefully that's working okay.For another thing, and this is hard to tell from the pictures that you sent, I think your vacuum lines are not hooked up correctly. The one at the top of the air horn (where the air cleaner sits) is not a vacuum line. That's a "choke clean air tube." It should be running to the bottom of the exhaust manifold to supply clean air to the choke mechanism. You're running an electric choke, you don't need this. There's no vacuum at that point; it's just for fresh air that's coming into the air cleaner. To me it looks like you're running your vacumm modulator on your transmission off that. The vacuum modulator should be picking up vacuum from a source at or below the level of the throttle blades in the carb. You need constant vacuum to the modulator to hold your car in high gear.Most generally there should be a port off the base somewhere. Perhaps the one that's blocked off under the electric choke.The plugged vacuum port on the front of the carb should be used to run a line to your vacuum advance on your distributor. The big line going to your PCV valve should be fine. On a stock carburetor, the PCV valve hose and the power brake hose come off a tee at the back of the carburetor. There should be a separate vacuum fitting on the back of the intake manifold that provides the heater and a/c with vacuum.Like I said, it's hard to tell exactly where your lines are running, but I think that you've got a couple that aren't correct. If you look at these and find that I'm correct, make some changes and see what happens to your performance. Perhaps with no vacuum advance to the distributor, you're not gettng spark to the plug when it's needed. That will cause a problem for sure. Keep me posted and we'll see what else pops up. Let me know if I was right about how a couple of these lines looked. If I were you, I'd contact the Carter company and see if there's still literature available for that carb. What's the number on it. Not the 9000 number, but a stamped number on the base. That will tell you how big (CFM's) it is.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmdbhornet Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Ed Can you post a photo of the passenger side rocker cover. I would like to see the brackets which hlod your heater hoses. Thanks Gerry ROA # 11736 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest musclecarfan65 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 tubing looks quite "interesting" compared to what is shown in the 1965 buick chassis manual ... and totally different to what the routing was on the rivi i've sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Gerry,I'd be glad to but you wouldn't gain anything from looking at it. I've had my '64 for about a year now and the heater core has been bypassed and cannibalized so there are no heater hoses routed to the firewall, just one looping the water pump. To answer your question though, my '64 chassis manual shows there are a couple of brackets coming off the valve cover hold down bolts that cradle the hose going from the water pump across the intake manifold bolts to the heater core, and there's a similar bracket on the firewall right above the heater core; these hold the hose going into the top of the heater core. For the hose coming from the bottom of the heater core, it shows one bracket, like the others, on the bottom of the heater core box and no others. That hose goes to the water valve, located on the passenger side inner fender, and then to the neck of the water outlet on the thermostat housing. Not a lot of support. I don't remember seeing too many cars with these brackets, most of the ones I can recall seeing just have the hose lying across the intake manifold bolts, and the rest are suspended by the clamps on the water pump, heater core, and water valve.You can't use the pictures that Jim posted of the '63. The water control valve for the '63 is on the firewall; it's on the inner fender in '64. Jim's 63 runs both sets of hoses across the intake manifold bolts, only one hose on your '64 goes across the manifold bolts. The brackets in the picture look completely different than the ones shown in the shop manual.Sorry I can't be of more help. EdPS: The pictures I posted of the carburetor are not from my car. They're from a member of the ROA who moved from Kansas City to Minneapolis/St. Paul last year. I took those pictures to help me plumb the OEM carb I bought to replace the Edlebrock carb that was on the car when I bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmdbhornet Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks Ed I found the brackets and I think I got them in the right places. It appears that most of the brackets were taken off these vehicles and never put back. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Greetings All, Big thanks to Jim for coming over and getting greasy! OK, this is what we troubleshooted folks. We cleaned the carb, vaccuum tested it, changed the spark plugs and wires and did a compression test. Here is the results of the compression test (I wouldn't get to the one under the compressor and the alternator). rear Pass. driver 140 -- 160 150 -- 120* 155 -- 145 ???? -- 150Still couldn't get it to run right. It's a really rough idle.What do you guys think??*the plug was grey unlike the the rest of the plugs that were normal.Thanks Again!!Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/gdiwicker/?albumview=slideshowQuestion. Will the engine run if the all wires are in sequence, but one off? Look at the pictures and let me know what you think. The three blue stars is the wire coming off of the number one cylinder. Looking at the shop manual, it seems as if my number one cylinder is connected to number three on the distributor as it is two away from the mounting screw. The picture in the SM says the number six should be to the left of the mounting screw. Right now number three is to the left of the screw. Of course the distributor is not stock so the mounting screws that I am using as a reference might be between other cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 you do not have a stock distributor, you can not go by reference to mounting screws in SM illustrations.In fact, any distributor cap position can be chosen by you for the #1 plug position, as long as the body of the distributor is oriented to give a spark to that spot on the cap at the right time (in time with the valves and crankshaft). Then you follow the firing order for the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gdiwicker Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Hey All, Thanks so much for the great advice. I got her back on the road again last Saturday. I just went back through the ignition system and did some carb adjustments. I don't know which system was the culprit but it worked. Again, big thanks to Jim for helping out, guiding me at the house and via this forum. All of you guys have made me a member as long as I'm a Riviera owner. This group of friendly, knownledgable, and dedicated owners have definetly impressed a newbie.Keep it up Guys!Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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