Starting Problem 88 Coupe

1988 Coupe, This car has set for some time, the car did run fine and would run it when I could, Needed brakes and such. Then it stopped running, had no fuel pressure. Since then I have removed the rear suspension and cleaned and painted the gas tank, New delco pump installed, fixed fuel lines and tested, Good fuel pressure crank with no start, I just replaced the crank sensor, plugs and wires new. While testing from green line while cranking and with fuel pressure gauge in place. oil pressure sensor unhooked. Get average 10.41 volts when cranking with charged battery, fuel pressure 45 psi. Pulled a plug to see if it was wet with gas and was not. Did test for spark and with plug hooked to wire and held to ground. Any more things to check?

Also for the database. I have car 903626 White with Blue , 100224 miles, located in Smithsburg MD. I also have the Baby Seat buckles and it still had the fog light covers unused in bag. . Looks like I will need to replace the cradle mounts, read the threads on it, not sure if anyone ever posed a good solution for these mounts.

You didn't say if you got spark or not. Did you? If so than your problem is with injectors. Borrow a NOID light from your FLAPS and see if ECM is trying to fire the injectors. If not, there is a fuse to be checked, and if that's good may be the the ECM unfortunately. Try disconnecting it, clean the connectors and retry. Also tap on it and wiggle wires to see if that helps.

Can the injectors be tested with meter? I also have a code reader but have not tried it on the Reatta. Where is the ECM located? Yes I got a spark but will retest. Going to see what I can find now. Was not sure about fuses will go look now.

Checked fuses OK, Diag. from touch screen giving warning about vehicle computer communication problems. Looking for ECM now

Found ECM unplugged, re connected, Diag. for computer communication now says OK, Main Dash display had electrical connect problem light lit. Measured resistance on coils 2 read 11.5K ohms bottom one just over 12K. going to test all wires with timing light and pull a couple of plugs to re-check for fuel. When the pimp quit last year it had old fuel and I added some with ethanol in it and I think it killed the pump. I put treated fuel in it after pump replaced. Also have cruise control error.

That's a new one, leaving ECM unplugged. ???

Think problem is no signal to injectors. Try pouring about a shot glass full of gas into throttle body and see if it will run till that's gone. That will confirm ignition system is OK, which it seems to be based on what you have reported. If it starts, definitely fuel related, and 45 psi is plenty of pressure.

Can't really test injector pulses with a meter as they are to short to allow meter to respond. NOID light is basically a fast LED and a resistor which will flash if pulses are present.

Fuse 5 and 7 on interior relay panel (not fuse panel) power ECM and injectors.

The 3 relays on the firewall, what is the middle one for? It has black stuff all over the wires and socket , looks like something melted here.

The one next to it towards passenger side looks like the same black stuff but not as bad, Is it a sealant used or caused by heat do you think?

This will explain the relays. Brake & ABS Relay Location Can't explain the black stuff on them unless they have fell down against the exhaust manifold. They can do that. They just clip on to the firewall.

Dash,

It has black stuff all over the wires and socket , looks like something melted here.

My '88 had this crap on the relays where the wires go into the relays from underneath. Just figured that was some form of weather seal applied at the factory.

It was on all three relays.

John F.

Did a search and found the relay info. Yes the black stuff looks like some type of sealant. Going to do more fuel checks to see if any of the injectors are firing and get some fuel in the intake to see if I get at least some fire.If that works the injectors could be gummed up. When I got the car several years ago it was before the ethanol fuel, So it had the old pre ethanol gas in it. I think the mixture may have gummed up the injectors because the fuel pump failed after putting ethanol gas in it. If this is the case any recommended stuff to soak them in? Also can the fuel regulator cuase this I get good pressure when cranking but falls to zero pretty quick after stopping?

You could pull one injector, put a cup under it, and crank engine and see what spray/flow looks like. Would verify pulse is present and they are or aren't clogged.

Not holding pressure is the check valve in the pump, worn pulsator or plumbing connection at the pump outlet.

I'd get the car running before removing the tank again to figure that out. Might just be able to live with it as is.

Went to a junk yard today to see what cars might be there, came across a 91 Riv. Pulled the Delco Ignition module with coils, Installed them and tested the same, got out some starting fluid and sprayed into intake and fired right up. So I do have a fuel delivery problem. Could the fuel regulator cause this? Plan to pull down ECM and tap on it, I get no misfires so either the ECM ia not firing the injectors or all 6 are clogged.

Fuel regulator is not the problem if you have 45 psi on the fuel rail as you stated before.

You can't use a meter to test to see if the injectors are getting a signal to open from the ECM due to the signal being so short. However you can test the power side of the injector circuit for 12 volts by connecting your meter to the brown wire going to the injector and a good ground point on the engine. The brown wire is common to all the injectors and it should be hot anytime the ignition key is turned to the "run" position.

If the brown wire has 12 volts supplying power to the injectors then you have a problem with the ECM, or possibly the ECM isn't grounded properly. You should check all the ground near the battery. Ground Terminals & Junction Box Location

Keep in mind that the injectors are opened by the ECM grounding the injectors. Each injector has it's own ground wire (with different colors) going from the ECM the injector. Each injector should have 12 volt power (brown wire) anytime the key is on.

Thank You Ronnie, Will check for the 12 volt hot at the injectors, I have checked all fuses and all tested ok with meter, having hard time dropping out the ecm because of the orange connector, having hard time unplugging it. Also the module next to it has rubber lines on it running across . Not sure of removing glove box helps with this or not. I Have cleaned all the grounds by the battery before I started yesterday. Will test for 12 volts now.

Just tested for 12 volts on the brown wires from injector 3, no power, removed alternator so I could get to the plug that connects the injector harness to the car, I have no power on any wire in it. The one that looks like it should be the power is a BLK/RED wire by itself in the 7 wires harness plug. Going to go back over fuses and check for voltage, I checked all the fuses for open condition.

Ok did bone head thing, Thought key was on when I first tested for voltage, it was not. Tested with key on this time, Have volage on the brown at injectors and the BLK/RED at the harness plug. So looks like ECM is bad. Will the one out of the 91 Riv work or good source for another?

Just tested for 12 volts on the brown wires from injector 3, no power, removed alternator so I could get to the plug that connects the injector harness to the car, I have no power on any wire in it. The one that looks like it should be the power is a BLK/RED wire by itself in the 7 wires harness plug. Going to go back over fuses and check for voltage, I checked all the fuses for open condition.

'88-'90 ECM will work. '91 will not work. Rebuilt ECM in the Reatta Store for ~$95 with free shipping if you can't find used.

That is what I will most likely do, Was already looking in the store, The 91 Riv. is pretty much untouched at this point with tall weeds and stuff all around not great place to work. It still has the dash intact and I might go back and get the mirror.

Thank you all for the great troubleshooting advice.

Any tips in getting the ECM out, removed the one screw attached to the lower duct, Still can't get orange connector unplugged and have this vacuum lines in the way.

Also on the ones in the store, does the eprom still need to be swapped?

If you don't have the glove box out it might be easier if you remove it. Just a few screws hold the glove box in. The connector should come loose by working it side to side while pulling outward until it lets go. Don't pull on the wires. I'm not certain but I think it has a clip on the top that locks it in. Your prom will have to be swapped into the rebuilt ECM. I hope another ECM solves your problem.

Thanks Ronnie, ECM ordered, will try from the glove box, the wires are tight at the orange connector at the bottom and I think that is what is keeping me from unplugging it. Yes hope this solves it running. Then back to Brakes, then exhaust, then maybe cradle mounts. And other misc repairs.

Good luck! I hope you get it going soon.

Installed re-man ECM, Electrical problem light is out. Still No start, I think the new ECM is fine, but going to get NOID tool to check signals, if good there then fuel rail and injectors coming off for good soaking and cleaning. Will update till problem resolved. Also have Cruise Control waring that says disengaged warning on the screen, what should I look at to stop this waring? Cruise is turned off at switch.

ECM problem should set codes, ICM may not. If pouring 1/2 oz of gas into the manifold (I use the octopus) does nada then is likely an ignition problem. (CPS, wiring, ICM) if a plug, plug wire, or coil is bad it will generall start but run badly. If you look at "Cranks but Does Not Run" in the service manual it will tell you how to check the CPS by shorting two wires in the connector and listening for injector rattle or noid blink.

Does the engine still start if you spray starting fluid in it as you reported before? Does it still have 45 psi fuel pressure after you changed the ECM? Don't want to take anything for granted at this point. Adding a rebuilt ECM could have brought on new problems. Even newly rebuilt ECMs have been found to be bad.

Fuel Pressure still at 45 psi, NOID Light Test was OK, so ecm is working, After taking apart fuel rail and removing the injectors, I used a can of CAB cleaner and sprayed them good from both ends, reinstalled and car grumbles but is trying to start., if starting fluid is sprayed into intake fires right up and sounds good. The ICM I pulled from 91 RIV has tested fine and got same reading resistance read on each delco coil, I think the magnavox ICM is still good part but plan to run the delco. just for record the all the injectors had an impedance reading of 14.7 ohms, Had some 95 Satrun SL injectors laying around for comparison, spray nozzle is much larger and resistance reading was 5.8 ohms for them. CRT screen just went out, has done this on this car before so not sure if it needs repair or not yet. Going to try to get it running and am doing cost analysis on it to see with the work it still needs to fix it and to get it on the road or sell it. Would like to keep it but the list seem to get longer the more I work on it.

Going to add more fuel with cleaner in it to see if it helps, if not new or reman injectors are in order, was thinking of trying the ones on the 91 RIV at the junk yard that I got the ICM from.

Sounds like you are really close to getting it started. Has this car been sitting long enough without running that the injectors are gummed up from bad gas?

If CAB cleaner=CARB cleaner, be aware that some CARB cleaners can ruin an O2 sensor of enough gets burned that the O2 sensor picks it up. It was a big problem when GM first start started using O2 sensors.

O2 sensor won't affect starting, is not used until closed loop.

"I used a can of CAB cleaner and sprayed them good from both ends, reinstalled and car grumbles but is trying to start., if starting fluid is sprayed into intake fires right up and sounds good." How long does it run on the spray ? If just a few seconds then either you are not getting gas or what you are getting isn't gas. How much fuel is in the tank ?

...was thinking of trying the ones on the 91 RIV at the junk yard that I got the ICM from.

Unless that Riv. just got driven in, my guess would be that the injectors on it are already gummed up.

John F.

Read my injector cleaning post. After getting 6 injectors that worked, Car now runs. Now have to try to fix CRT, Exhaust then Brakes