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'63 Riviera 700R4 trans.


Guest 63riviera

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Ed,

Let us know how that swap works out for you! Having taught the 700R4, 4L60-E, 4L80-E, Allison and the new 6 speed automatics for GM, transmission choice is really going to be based on what you are looking for.

Things like clearance, intended use, vehicle weight and budget all enter in. Parts availablity is important, too. The 4L60 family of transmissions is still being built by GM, nearly 2 decades after the last 200 4R was built. In a heavy vehicle like the Riviera, there is no downside to a 3.06 to 1 first gear ratio to get the car moving!

Most transmission techs are familar with the 700R4/4L60 transmissions but the guys who know the 200 4R is not a number that is increasing and will likely decrease in the near future. I would always go for the latest technology I could when modifing a vintage car, it just makes sense to modify it with something that is not also obsolete!

Tim

Edited by tim63riv (see edit history)
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Guest Roostriz
For the 200-4R conversion that I'm working on for my '64, I'm using a shifter from an '84 Monte Carlo SS. The SS came from the factory with the 200-4R. The diameter of both the OE Riviera shifter and the Monte Carlo shifter are the same diameter. They both incorporate a "push to release" mechanism for the reverse lock-out. Some simple modifications to the shifter rod and you can put the Monte Carlo shifter inside the Riv's console. The nice thing about it is that it's a cable shifter and the geometry is correct for having the trans in gear with the shifter lever in the proper location on the quadrant. The only thing that's necessary to modify is the neutral safety switch.

Ed

PS - I'm using one of Eelco's adapters. An article I wrote on this swap was published in the Riview last year. In it, I explain why I (along with others) chose the 200-4R over the 700-R4. There are a number of pictures of the installation as was done by Dave Gee on his '65.

Ed,

Having owned several Monte Carlo SS I m pretty sure the 84 only came with a th350C. Are the detents the same between this and the 200-4r tranny shifter?

Chris

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Chris,

I could be wrong about the year. I do know that the car from which the shifter was pulled had an O/D indicator on the shifter quadrant. I've also talked to Herb at Shiftworks about modifying an OE 63 or 64 or 65 shifter (which ever I can find cheaply enough to send to him and let him look at it) that will shift the 200-4R with a cable rather than a rod. I've seen one he did that was used in a Wildcat.

Tim,

I chose the 200-4R after talking to an ROA member at the 2005 meet. He had a 700-R4 in his '63 and he told me about a few problems he encountered with fitting the larger 700-R4 case and adapter in the X-frame. The speedometer cable had a kink in it that made the speedometer flucuate and he had to massage the floor pan a little. The stock transmisson crossmember needs a small modification to bolt to the 200-4R; the placement of the 700-4R's mounting holes require fabrication of a new crossmember. I also wanted to stay away from any of the newer electronic transmissions. Besides that, I swapped some stuff I no longer needed for the 200-4R so the price was unbeatable. It came from an Olds Cutlass that had the 5.0 litger V-8 in it. I'll be upgrading it enough to handle the torque of the nailhead.

Here are a couple of pictures of the 200-4R that Dave has in his '65 Riv iera. Nice fit.

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Chris,

you're correct. The 84 Monte Carlo SS only ever came with the TH350, and the 305 CID engine. Many years ago I put a 700R4 in my SS but it didn't hold up against a 454. I tried it twice and considered it a costly education lesson. That was with the early style 700R4. I've heard they made a lot of improvements since then.

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  • 1 year later...
Guest duck2

RivNut do you have any more pict of this conversion. Or anymore insight. Particuly the shifter an linkage details. Thanks

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The pictures I posted are of Dave Gee's installation. He has more on his facebook page. I'm not to the point of istalling the shifter yet, but if you're having problems you can always revert to using a cable unit from someone like Lokar or Shiftworks.

Ed

PS - Typo in my original post about the 200-4R, the shifter came from an '85 Monte Carlo SS. That's what I get for trying to touch type numbers.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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Guest duck2

RivNut do oyu have anymore pict of the conversion? Tn particular the crossmember mods and the shifter mods. Thanks in advance

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As I said in post #49, the pictures are of Dave Gee's car and can be seen on his facebook page. He shows how he modified the crossmember to accept the 200-4R. Neither one of us is to the point of installing a shifter yet. If you're unsure of what mods to make to an existing shifter then go with an after market unit from Lokar or Shiftworks.

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Hey RivNut, they may be on Dave Gee's facebook page, but there is no link so give Duck2 a break and post the link to the correct Dave Gee. There are more than you think.

I would be interested in as much info in this as there is, too. I have a 200r4 waiting for a performance rebuild.

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I'm finally back in town (been on spring break) and have access to Dave's facebook page. Click on the first and second pictures in the upper left to find the pictures of Dave's build. I don't know which page or where on the page the pictures of the crossmember modifications are. There are NO dimensions given, just pictures.

1965 Buick Riviera | Facebook

More important than the linkage is the hook-up and adjustment of the TV cable. If it's not right, you burn up a transmission in less than two blocks.

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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I just looked at a website that I've known about but haven't looked at for a while. Herb at Shiftworks may have a solution for you.

SHIFTWORKS - 1964-72 Buick Shifter

Take a look at what he has for a 64 - 67 Buick using the original shifter. You may have to find a shifter from a '64 or 65 and bolt the the tunnel in your '63 but this appears to make things a lot easier. I'm definitely going to check this out rather than trying to use the '85 Monte Carlo shifter I now have. I talked with Herb about this some time ago and at that time he had no interest; I'd given up on him. Time does amazing things.

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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A 200-4R has a .67 overdrive. If you have an original 3.23 rear end, you'll wind up with a 2.16 final drive. That's a pretty high speed rear and you might be lugging the engine quite a bit at highway speeds. You might want to consider something like a 3.42 which would give you a 2.29 final drive - still low. I happen to have a 3.91 gear set for mine which will give me a 2.62 final drive, but WOW what a gear for acceleration. Gears for these rear ends are 9 3/8" ring gears and the only thing out there is OE stuff. One option would be to find a 59" flange to flange Ford 9" and weld the brackets from an OE rear end to it so you couold have a good choice of gears (easy way to get a posi too.) What I've thought about doing is getting a completer rear assembly from a Ford Explorer - 59" flange to flange, disk brakes, 3.73 rear gears, and posi. They're cheap and available.

Ed

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest duck2

Be aware the ford explorer rear is offset to the right. The mustange guys use the right hand side axels and the explorer disc set ups for enexpensive 5lug disc brake conversions

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  • 2 years later...
Guest munch69protour

Doing research for a 200 4-R swap, glad I found this thread! Any other shifters that fit under the stock console of a 63? Does anyone have the dimensions of the stock 63 shifter assembly? I haven't taken mine apart yet.

Anyone know the major differences between the EELCO adapters and Bendtsen's?

Thanks in advance.

Marcel

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Guest Roostriz

I haven't used either but I didn't think you could get the Eelco anymore. Also from the talk on the various boards it seems that bendstens may be a better fit and finish. Again I have no firsthand experience with either...yet.

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