455 standard in 68, 69 Olds Toronado?

[Pontiac59]

Just wondered if the 455 was standard or optional.

I bought two rotty parts cars today, a '58 Buick and this Olds, it's rough and I figured I'd pick a few pieces off it and crush it given it's worth about three times what I paid for it with some junk loaded in, but I checked my Motors book and it seems the motor could be a 455. If the 455 is not standard, is the engine code located in the same place as the engine number (Motors says on the dipstick tube, of all places)?

Are there any other hard to find parts that I should pull (axle shafts or frontend stuff maybe) before this goes? I don't have the space to keep it around and there are no good body panels on it at all. An animal has been living inside it, juding by the pile of dirt on the front floor. I'm not even sure if I will bother to pull the tilt column out of it.

Thanks -

[Junqueboi]

455 is standard. Where is car located -- I need some obscure dash bracketry off a '66 to '70 Toronado.

[Pontiac59]

Upstate NY. Send me a PM and let me know what you need - I'll probably spend a day taking it apart, and I may just cut the whole front off it to get the motor out (it's that rotted).

I did some digging, I did see one on eBay listed as having a 360-hp motor which is a 400, but apparently the big thing is the C heads -

[imported_Badger Guy]

Look striaght down between the water pump and water inlet. Right below the curved hose there will be a flat spot. Probably full of grease and other junk. The I.D numbers are there. A 68-70 455 should be 396021F. A 68-69 400 should be 396026G. The letters are big so old guys like me can see them without taking the glasses out.

Tom

[Guest BJM]

Are there any other hard to find parts that I should pull (axle shafts or frontend stuff maybe) before this goes? I don't have the space to keep it around and there are no good body panels on it at all. An animal has been living inside it, juding by the pile of dirt on the front floor. I'm not even sure if I will bother to pull the tilt column out of it.

The 69 455 Olds is highly valued by the muscle car crowd. I am very surprised that no Olds guy has chimed in here to tell you that the 455 was the standard and ONLY motor available in Toronados. The cranks are nodular I believe, if not outright steel - and can bring $250 to $500 depending on condition. The heads are high compression and the letter - as you correctly note - will give them away as valuable. The dual exhaust manifolds can be sold on ebay or 442.com for $50 to $200 or more depending on condition. The Quadrajet has value because it will be a high CFM version. The oil pan on Toronado 455's has a deeper sump and built in windage tray ($$$$) and on and on.

I would recommend pulling the motor and if it turns over, try selling it complete on ebay or on 442.com. If it doesn't sell for a reasonable amount, then part it out. You should be able to get $500 to $1000 for the motor and/or parts and help save a valuable muscle car motor in the process.

Glass/door panels/taillight housing/chrome/ all have value to Toronado collectors. It just depends on how much you want to part it out and place auctions on ebay etc.

[Oldsmaniac]

Well, If you want to get crazy the 425 was in the Toro in 66 and 67. Then the 455 till 1976 and then the 403 in 77 then the 350 in 1979 and lastly the 307 V8 around 1981 with the last V-8 Toronado in 1985 displacing 307 cubes....Probably most people already know Pontiac 59 as a low life who's participation in the old car hobby is just for profit and destruction of the remaining less valuable parts so he can quickly move on to the next antique car to pillage. Thats why people wont reply to his messaging. He grabbed my cash and I never got the part....Beware......

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The cranks are nodular I believe, if not outright steel - and can bring $250 to $500 depending on condition.</div></div>

Only a very few 68 455 cranks were forged. The 69 will be nodular.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The heads are high compression and the letter - as you correctly note - will give them away as valuable.</div></div>

Nope. All big block Olds heads (except for the 68-69 D heads) have the same 80 cc combustion chambers (although as-cast is always a little larger than that). Olds varied compression ratio by using a larger or smaller dish in the piston. Also, C heads may be prized but they are not particularly rare, since ALL big blocks built from 1967-1969 used the C head exclusively, with the exception of the 68-69 W-30 and H/O. The Toro heads WILL have the larger 2.07" intakes vs. the 2.00" intake used on lesser big blocks; exhaust valves are all the same 1.63". By the way, the D heads used 72 CC chambers.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dual exhaust manifolds can be sold on ebay or 442.com for $50 to $200 or more depending on condition.</div></div>

Maybe, but the exhaust manifolds (as well as the intake) are unique to the Toro. The exhausts won't even fit in a 442/Cutlass.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Quadrajet has value because it will be a high CFM version.</div></div>

Nope again. It will be the same 750 CFM as other 69 Olds Qjets.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The oil pan on Toronado 455's has a deeper sump and built in windage tray ($$$$) and on and on.</div></div>

Since I have a couple of Toro pans and "windage trays" in the barn, I can tell you they aren't all they're cracked up to be. The pan actually has two sumps with a groove in the middle to clear the axle shaft. The pan is deeper than a RWD pan, but narrower due to the transmission, so there isn't much help there from a performance standpoint. Similarly, the "windage tray" is actually a couple of baffles designed primarily to control oil flow between the two sumps. It does NOT scrape or prevent oil from clinging to the crank. In fact, the design of the pan forces oil to acculate in the front, potentially starving the pickup in the rear. Bottom line is that for performance use, an aftermarket pan and scraper are a much better selection.

[Guest BJM]

Joe,

I stand corrected on several points you bring up. Thanks for the clarification. I owned a 66 Toro with a 425 built through Mondellos assistance, technical book and parts catalogs. I also owned a 71 442 with a 70 Toronado 455 with nodular crank in it. I owned a 67 442 as well.

I technically agree that the C heads and all of those Olds heads are not high compression heads in and of themselves but they are valuable. They are easy to sell, especially the non California heads.

I got my information on the oil pans from Joe Mondello himself. It's a good stock pan, holds more oil. The design - I won't call it a windage tray then - is a good compromise. the holding of an extra quart of oil makes up for design compromise - in fact I think that is why Olds engineers added an extra quart capacity. A properly prpared 425 will never have oiling issues in street garb. Perhaps in high end racing issues, but 95% of guys aren't racing that I know of.

The Quad is a decent one, and for those not wanting to mess with trying to find a needle in a haystack for one of the rare Quads that flows better, I call 750 cfm a muscle car carb. I have heard that Olds guys consider the big block 425/455 needs more cfm, but again, probably not in street form. I believe the carb for 66-67 Toros was different then Quads later on. Remember the heads are unique on the 66-67 425 Toronados. Not sure about the 455's.

The cranks I remember there was a split off date when they went nodular, then cast. My 70 Toronado 455 definitely was Nodular. My 66 Toro 425 was steel. Nonetheless, we are splitting hairs as all Olds big block cranks that received decent oiling from 65 to 70 are valuable.

Sorry, I started rambling before I put more thought into it. I am more or less a Buick guy that got sidetracked into Olds for a few years. I have 2 good friends that are still Olds guys. It has been 7 years since I owned my cars and when I had them I was into the whole Mondello/442/Toronado craze big time but my old car circles run from the 20's to the 80's and my retention failed a little.

I used my Toro exhaust manifolds in the 70 442. Generally the dual exhasut manifolds have value and bring money on ebay or 442.com, no matter what they are used in.

Just my response.

Jake