Got a Packard!

[Twitch]

Well I got a black 23 series 1950 Standard 4dr.- see my avatar I should have it via truck in a week or so. Then I can escape to the past...hopefully.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Hey, Great! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You Are going to Add a Cannon in Turret, aren't you? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

I'm sure that you will love it! Congratulations.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Congratulations on your "new" Packard. I like your idea about escaping into the past. I guess that's what we all do when holding on to something we

valued or prized years ago. Brings back good memories.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Twitch]

I'll be adding a 20mm Vulpod for defense and will rip out the puny 8 for a real Packard- the Merlin V-12!!

I'm ready to escape to the past for sure since this timeline sucks for me.

[Guest JT]

Hey we'll be looking forward to your run against Hadfield's cheby <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

http://www.the-rumbler.com/sydney2k3-1.html

[55PackardGuy]

Thanks for posting the nice pic of the Packard Merlin. You've mentioned this engine before as a dream conversion. Is that all we can do is dream?? I mean, is this any kind of possible retrofit in a passenger car? Could the weight be supported? Would it be driveable on ordinary roads, or just an experiment for the track or the salt flats? I believe Packard Merlins and/or Allison aircraft V12s were used for speed record run in cars after WWII. Another fantasy Packard retrofit would be the marine engines, but they were even bigger and heavier weren't they? This idea has always intriqued me, and I wonder if it has ever been successfully accomplished.

[Guest JT]

The link I posted above is a road registered merlin car for what that's worth.

Here is another view of engine/chassis which is far from a retrofit.

http://www.dlra.org.au/meetjuly2000.htm

[55PackardGuy]

Thanks, JT.

I went on a search for applications and specs. I didn't find an application, but here's the specs for the Packard Merlin:

Model: V-1650-7

Type: 12-cylinder with two-stage mechanically-driven supercharger

Displacement: 1,649 cu.in.

Weight: 1,690 lbs.

Max. RPM: 3,000

Max. HP: 1,695

Cost: $25,000

Note that the weight, displacement and HP all come in at just over the magic number of 1650. This was an engineering goal that was triumphantly realized:

1 HP per cu in. dispacement per pound.

In addition to manufacturing excellence, Packard also contributed the use of silver-lead main bearings and chrome alloy valves, greatly improving engine life.

[FRANKL]

best of luck with it. i just got a 49 about 6 weeks ago that shoud be pretty much the same, except the color. have a look at it.

[Twitch]

Frank- I downloaded your car pic and now have it in my screensaver. The reason I got a classic car was partly that screensaver. If anyone wants a great freeware screensaver/wallpaper program go to webshots.com. I was diagnosed with cancer several months ago and kept myself from going nuts dwelling on it by looking for all sorts of car pics on the web to download.

Happily now it is in check and I have a few hundred car pics. But I got off into Packards and my days as a kid in the 50s. My Dad sold and owned Packards and I shifted gears for him while standing on the floor when I was a little guy.

I've writen a couple hundred articles and 3 books on WW 2 air combat and know how awe inspiring the Merlin is. My Dad had a taste of it in a P-51 during the very late stages of the war in Europe.

When I worked for Road & Track many years ago one of the technical editors answered a reader's engine swap question by ending with "you can put any engine in any car- an Allison V-12 in an MG even- if you have the time and money."

I believe I'll keep my car pretty original but have no problem doing modern upgrades as things present themselves.

Here is a sidebar on the P-51 from an article I once wrote. Someone may find some interesting data.

SIDE BAR-

The North American P-51 Mustang was one of the most decisive air combat tools devised during the Second World War. It could escort Big Friends all the way to Berlin and back. Never again did a scenario like Schweinfurt unfold while P-51s protected them.

Born under the leadership of North American's president James "Dutch" Kindelberger in a scant 117 days, its revolutionary laminar flow wing airfoil provided lift and allowed greater speed. The P-51A had the American 1,200 HP Allison V-1710-81 V-12 installed. It was soon crossbred in England with the excellent Rolls-Royce Merlin that would provide superior altitude capability as well as higher speed at all heights. Packard built the Merlin in the U.S. designated the V-1650-7. The same engine was used in the identical "C" model and later in the improved "D" model. 1,988 "B", 1,750 "C", and 6,500 "D" models were manufactured.

The Packard-Merlin displacement was 27 liters (1,649 cubic inches) weighing 768 kg (1,690 lbs.). It could turn at 3,000 RPM producing 1,695 HP with two intake and two exhaust valves per cylinder. Spark came from a dual magneto system firing one plug per cylinder. One was mounted toward the rear on each side of the engine. The two-stage turbo-supercharger was mounted directly behind and below the aftercooled engine and, in the same housing, dual Bendix-Stromburg carburetor units featuring a float diaphragm to assist inverted maneuvers. 100-115-octane fuel injected directly into the supercharger at 5 PSI

The huge, single air scoop for the big radiator dominates the Mustang's profile. Its cooling system of 16.5 gallons at 30 lbs. pressure used a 70/30 mixture of glycol/water. The radiator aftercooler had five gallons under 20 lbs. pressure. The coolant and oil pumps resided on the rear bottom-side of the engine along with dual fuel pumps. Oil capacity was 12.5 gallons. When overheated the Merlin did not immediately freeze up. The cylinder heads would develop tiny cracks allowing coolant to seep into the crankcase forming a tell tale white exhaust stream warning of impending danger. The Merlin would run ten minutes before seizing.

P-51B-10-NA Data:

Dimensions: Wingspan, 37 ft. 1/4 in.; length, 32 ft. 3 in.; height 8 ft. 8 in.; wing area 233 sq. ft.

Weights: Empty, 6,840 lbs.; normal loaded, 9,200 lbs.; maximum, 11,200 lbs.

Armament: Four wing-mounted .50 caliber Browning MG 53-2 machine guns with 350 RPG (inboard pair) & 280 RPG (outboard pair) plus two 1,000-lb. bombs. Rate of fire was about 13 rounds per second per gun.

Performance: Maximum speed, 395 MPH at 5,000 ft., 417 MPH at 10,000 ft., 426 MPH at 20,000 ft., 439 MPH at 25,000 ft., 435 MPH at 30,000 ft. Redline maximum dive speed 505 MPH; range on internal fuel, 955 miles at 397 MPH at 25,000 ft., 1,300 miles at 260 MPH at 10,000 ft. (with maximum external fuel), 2,440 miles at 249, MPH; time to 5,000 ft., 1.6 min., to 10,000 ft., 3.1 min., to 20,000 ft., 6.9 min.; service ceiling 41,900 ft.

[Twitch]

Oh and here's part of an article I wrote on aircraft engines regard the Merlin.

MERLIN

This power plant seems to have more magic than the character it was named after. Much of it is deserved. Swapping a Merlin for the Allision gave the P-51 Mustang its true personality and the rest is, pretty much, history. Packard built the Merlins in the US. The Merlin ultimately grew into the Griffon in England.

1934 saw the first Merlin B. As it evolved from this ancestor into WWII the refinements were many. The Merlin 66 was one of the most widely applied models along with the V-1650-7 Packard.

Its displacement was only 27 liters (1,649 cu in) weighing 768 kg (1,690 lbs.). It could rev at 3,000 rpm and produced 1,720 hp (1,695 hp Packard). Spark came from a dual magneto system firing one plug per cylinder. One was mounted toward the rear on each side of the engine. The two-stage supercharger was mounted directly behind the engine and below it in the same housing were two SU carburetors later replaced by Bendix-Stromburg units in 1943 featuring a diaphragm to assist inverted maneuvers. 100-115 octane fuel injected directly into the supercharger at 5psi. The carburetors we speak of here were more on the order of automobile-type throttle body fuel injection systems rather than carbs as we knew them on autos.

(merl.jpg) "The Magical Merlin"

The Merlins performance advantage over the Daimler with 530 more cubic inches is due to Stanley Hooker's redesign of the supercharger, impellers and inlet flow. It was found that duel impellers added power substantially though an engine aftercooler (not to be confused with the radiator aftercooler) was needed to prevent premature fuel detonation during compression in the cylinders. The aftercooler increased the fuel/air charge density proportionately producing extra power.

Certainly cooling was a critical factor and Spitfires ultimately required larger then dual radiators. The Mustang profile is dominated by its huge single air scoop for the big radiator. Its cooling system of 16.5 gallons at 30 lbs. pressure used a 70/30 mixture of glycol/water. The radiator aftercooler had 5 gallons under 20 lbs pressure. The coolant and oil pumps resided on the rear bottom-side of the engine along with the fuel pumps. Oil capacity was 12.5 gallons. When overheated the Merlin did not immediately freeze up. The cylinder heads would develop tiny cracks allowing coolant to seep into the crankcase forming a tell tale white exhaust stream warning of impending danger.

The final variant of the Merlin, the 130/131 developed 2,030 hp with one that was tested at full power for fifteen minutes at 2,640 hp. 168,040 were produced including Packard's output.

But as hot-rodders say, "there is no substitute for cubic inches," so entered the Griffon at 36.69 liters (2,239 cu in) displacement. Over all dimensions were close to the Merlin so interchangeability to the same aircraft was accomplished. Spitfires, such as the XIV, using the Griffon had 2,050 hp and the Spiteful with a Griffon 69 using a three-stage supercharger could hit 494 mph. With a single stage blower the Mk 58 developed 2,455 hp at low level and was used on the Shackelton bombers.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) With a single stage blower the [Griffon] Mk 58 developed 2,455 hp at low level (snip) </div></div>

OK, so now all "we" have to do is stuff a V-12 Giffon into a pre-1957 (pick your poison) Packard and go kick that aussie Hadfield's 55 Chebby's butt! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Special thanks to Twitch and everybody else who posted for the most interesting (slightly) off-topic thread in months!

[55PackardGuy]

I checked out that carazy '55 "Chevy" from Australia. I'd be surprised if a single nut or bolt in the chassis is even remotely "original." It looks like tubular construction designed to cradle the massive engine and fit under the Chevy body. What a job, though! I'm surprised that they actually mounted the engine between the front wheels, rather than closer to midships. With about a ton of Packard engine sitting out front, I imagine it understeers a bit. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Twitch]

I dream up a scenario of painting that 55 in stock scheme with standard body. It's night so the Lamborghini alongside doesn't notice the set back cockpit. The greasy foreign Lambo driver says to his girlfriend, "Sacrebleu, eet looks like anozher victeem for ze Lamborghini, eh babee?"

Then the light changes and the 55 screams out the 1/4 mile in 6.5 seconds at 215MPH. Sacrebleu indeed foreign guy! Hahahahaha! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[FRANKL]

Twitch, you certainly have a vivid imagination for someone with all that engineering background. interesting mixture making for entertaining posts.

[55PackardGuy]

The scary thing is, he's having my dreams--or I've been having his. Don't forget, Twitch, that for safe night-time racing, a set of aircraft landing lights is required equipment.

And I see this dream car with a '55 Packard 400 body (salvaged, of course) and, somehow, a TL suspension. Transmission? Probably an Allison truck automatic.

YEE HAW! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest JT]

Ha, I had a set of aircraft landing lights in the high beams of a 65 corvette many years ago and man they were bright. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Guest 51Patty400]

A "sleeper" Packard. Very cool!

- mark

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ha, I had a set of aircraft landing lights in the high beams of a 65 corvette many years ago and man they were bright. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

Yeah, me too on a 1965 GTO. I got mine from JCWhitney, I believe. In the middle of Kansas or New Mexico in the middle of the night they were terrific. But, one had to replace the relay/circuit breaker (whatever it was) in order for the extra amperage to keep the lights on for more than about 5 minutes! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It seems to my old eyes that some of the halogen lights on those big a$$ SUVs and p/u trucks today are worse than the old aircraft lights. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

With as many "small but bright" lights as there are on modern cars and concept cars, I don't know why there aren't "intelligent" lights. Sort of a combo of the old Caddy "auto dimmer" system, the "aircraft landing lights" brightness with computer-controlled directional steering of the lights. Hmmm... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest bkazmer]

It's here - HID lights with directional movement are in production- modern Pilot Rays!

The SUV problem is the height of the road oxen more than the brightness of the light.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's here - HID lights with directional movement are in production- modern Pilot Rays! (snip)</div></div>

Cool. Gotta link to an example?

[Twitch]

Well as a writer it is my job to entertain you guys as well as enlighten. When my Dad was in law enforcement in the Midwest he mounted landing lights on his light bar, hehehe. I had a 1 milliom candlepower driving light on my 63 Volvo 122-S that would reflect off a stop sign exactly one mile away. Maybe farther but the country road bent another direction.

All we need is a few tens of millions and we could make a Packard funny car to run in NHRA races! Woohoo!

[Guest Albert]

I would love to take a 55-56 TL chassis and stick it under one of my 54's for something to do...

[55PackardGuy]

Twitch,

No, the thing is to do it on the cheap. That's always more impressive. Now if I could only locate the spot out in the California desert where they buried all those surplus aircraft engines after WWII... and go out there with a flashlight some moonless night...

[Twitch]

I never heard about dumped aero engines in the desert but it's certainly possible. They probably built a retirement community over the site by now! But there is the area where Patton did tank maneuvers and you can still see the track marks.

[55PackardGuy]

It is probably just a legend. But there's lots of strange stuff out in the desert. I've actually seen the "airliner graveyard" whilst on a road trip. I thought I was going nuts. Later I read about it. I can't even remember where it is. I just kept driving, and wondering if I'd really seen it. I still wonder sometimes. Dozens--maybe hundreds-- of old airliners put out to pasture junkyard style.

They certainly did scrap a lot of stuff after WWII, sometimes because it was obsolete but also to prevent it getting dumped on the market and driving down prices. There's a sad story about all the B24 bombers that were carefully flown back by their pilots and crews, only to be junked shortly after arrival. You can read of George McGovern's experience of this in "The Wild Blue" by Stephen Ambrose. Buick built a lot of the B24 radial engines BTW.

I guess the "bottom line" is that finding a serviceable Packard Merlin anywhere is a very long shot. There is a company that still services them to Rolls Royce/Packard specs for the "warbirds" still in use. I wonder what THAT costs. You can find them by Googling Packard Merlin. Maybe one will show up on e-bay. Ha.

[Twitch]

The airliner graveyard is really a place where the mothball them for future use and do not part them out. That's in Mojave CA where the Rutan space ship headquarters at.

But outside Tucson AZ there really is a military plane graveyard. I'm pretty sure all the V-12s are long gone. Not sure if there is anything left at all from WW2. There are some airliners there so that could be what you saw too.

The B-24 used Wright Cyclone air cooled radials. I really don't know if they had Buick licensed to build them. Probably. It wasn't surprising to see any company doing anything for the war effort then. Ford built some of the B-29s. Boy things have changed.

And yes the big iron from WW2 that is still flying is co$tly to maintain! One thing though, the most numerous aircraft are the P-51s with Packard-Merlins. I think there are about 150 still flyable.

[55PackardGuy]

http://www.prewarbuick.com/id471.htm

[Guest bkazmer]

direction lights - Lexus 430 and possibly others

[55PackardGuy]

Tucker <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Twitch]

Now what I'd like to have is the HUD display radar Cadillac has on my '96.

[Twitch]

Boy am I happy. My car was delivered today. Now I can mess around with it and drift back to the old days! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

*Great*, What are you gonna Work on First?

Other than finding a Good Place to Park it, that is. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Twitch]

Believe it or not the only thing that doesn't work is the left real blinker. ALL else functions! Paint is new. New WWW radials. Interior except driver's seat is original and the upholstry on the driver's seat covers the original fabric on the seat. Headliner material original and no tears as are doors.

It runs and drives smooth and quiet without smoke. I'll have to get a 6 volt test light so I can track down the blinker glitch but that's about all. And I have a fine place inside my back yard behind 6' solid metal gates under carport or in garage whatever is handy.

Contemplating using lead additive subsitute in gas since engine has not been rebuilt in modern times. That's a controversial topic for sure.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, Blinker problems can sometimes be hard to find, since the wires go from one end of the car to the Other, with connections under dash and steering column, but if the front one on that side is working then the problem is probably around that tail light somewhere. Good Luck!

[joe kastellic]

I made a post on this forum about using a lead additive and from my personal experince, and a lot of others which I respect their opinions, you don't need to use it and no harm will result. GOOD LUCK with your "new car"

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Believe it or not the only thing that doesn't work is the left [rear] blinker. (snip)</div></div>

Try checking for a poor ground on the blinker light socket. This was the problem on my 55 Pat front blinkers. I ran an extra ground wire for each and that solved it.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I made a post on this forum about using a lead additive and from my personal experince, and a lot of others which I respect their opinions, you don't need to use it and no harm will result. </div></div>

Yes, I would agree, [color:"red"] IF you don't drive fast (over 60mph) for extended periods (hours).

[Guest Albert]

What i found out with the blinkers on my 54 is you need the right side front bulbs in to get the left side working and vis versa... defenatly add an extra ground wire to all the sockets, even the back ones. You can apply power to the socket at the bottom of the steering column to check out each light or lights on the front and back, to prove out the switch itself..