Guest Ken G Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 A year or so ago I had a new tire and tube installed on a newly painted wheel (all steel "artillery" wheel), and it has spent its time on the rack at the back of the car, that is, it has never been on the road. A few months ago, I found the tire was flat so I pumped it up, apparently without trouble. I thought it might have been the result of a stuck valve. However, a week or so ago, I found again that it was completely flat, but this time I couldn't build up any pressure. I took the wheel back to the firm that installed the tire (specialists in truck tires, who can deal with 22 inch diameter wheels), and the man there established that the tube had a slit in it. He also remarked that he would have expected there to be a tire flap. Why he didn't make that remark a year ago at the first installation, I don't know! He has installed my spare inner tube, but if the first one failed, without bearing the weight of the car, I don't see why the second won't too.Anyway, can anyone explain precisely what a tire flap is, and whether you would expect it to be compulsory on a 1925 wheel? (I haven't deflated one of the tires on the car to see whether there is anything under or around the tubes.) Is it possible to improvise with for example duct tape?Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1959olds Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Tire flaps, to my understanding, were used for one of two reasons. The first being any "spoked" wheel, to keep the spoke nut from rubbing against the tube. The other, being a solid wheel, the flap, or liner was used as a precaution if there was any scratch or imperfection in the inside of the rim, to onec again keep the tube from rubbing or moving against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 All spoked wheels, wire and wood, need a tire flap to protect the tube from the uneven inside of the wheel. Think of it as a big rubber band between the wheel and the tube. Now is the time to be careful. If you order tire flaps from coker they may send you a narrow (about one inch wide) thin flap. Apparently it is fine for some of the newer narrow wire spoke wheels, but it is worthless for the older large wheels and tubes. The older wheels require a wider (about four inch with thicker center) and Coker has them - you just have to explain to the order taker which one you want. Flaps are needed for those spoke wheels - just be sure to get the right ones. If your tire person installed the tubes and tires without flaps, he should be chastised for his failure to mention that you did not have proper flaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Miller Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I agree with ronbarn. The one inch wide flaps are for later drop center wheels. You need the wider flaps to protect your tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Also remember that you can ALWAYS use a tube which is smaller than specified for the tire but you can NEVER use one larger than specified. Any folds in an inflated tube will split in short order. And no, duct tape won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_oldmitchell Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 The small rubber straps are rim bands and will not work very well if at all. A flap will actually fold up around the tube and be partially inserted into the tire. I would suspect that the rest of the tires do not have them also. Might be a good time to put some in as non use could result in sudden failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 If Ken would attach a picture of the wheel and tire -not mounted- we could probably determine whether he needs a rim band or a tube flap. I can't be sure from his description exactly what he is dealing with. hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hoover Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Not that I know a thing about a 1925 Rover, but they should have a 22" rim and therefore would require a full tire flap. The narrow rimstrips can only be used up to a 21" drop center wheel. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken G Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Thanks, everyone. The tires on the car itself were installed by my cousin in England, so I have no idea whether they have flaps or not. They have carried the car perhaps 2000 miles with no problem (that's a dangerous thing to say!). My cousin also installed the old spare tire from the 1950s on a spare wheel (presumably with a new tube), and that too has held air for some years. Perhaps I should deflate it and take a look to see whether there are flaps. I cannot take a photograph of a wheel without a tire because the "real" spare and offending tire/tube are still at the truck tire shop.I take the point about tube sizes, but the tubes were supplied by the tire company as supposedly the correct ones, and the tire shop man did not comment.I don't understand the remark about 21 and 22 inch wheels, nor what is meant by a drop center wheel. My Rover's wheels are I think cast steel, but I have no idea how smooth the inside is. However, it seems to me that whether or not tire flaps were intended, they can't do any harm.I do have one question. When I found the tire completely flat and failed to get any pressure in it, I removed it from the spare carrier on the back, and pushed the tire sideways so I could see the tube. I didn't search for long to find the leak (a split, so I am told), but it looked to me as if it would be possible to remove or install a tube by pushing the tire sideways without the need to force the bead outside the wheel rim. Does anyone know whether it is likely to be possible to do that? My only experience with tires is on a bicycle, and that was more than 40 years ago, and if I remember rightly it was possible to pull out the tube, for instance to repair a puncture, without using tire irons.Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_oldmitchell Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 If the tire has broken loose from the beads it might be possible but I believe it will be easier to demount at least one side of the tire to install the tube. I would also inspect the rim.For wire wheels I like to seal the ends of each spoke with RTV to prevent water ingress. I then use electrical tape to go around the rim. After that I just install the tire, tube and flap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Ken,If you're worried about marring the finish on the rim, try working from the backside...if you're just changing the tube, as long as both beads are broken loose from the rim, you should only need to prise ( ) one side over the rim to get the tube in/out...I've been mounting tires on my '41 De Soto since I've owned the car (eight years), because the "children" that work at the local tire palaces have no idea of how to deal with tube-type tires...A friend has an old-fashioned manual tire machine that I use for bead breaking...lately, I've just used a hammer and tie-rod "fork" to persuade the bead away from the rim, and then have used my two "motorcycle" tire irons (about 14" long) to get the tire over the rim.A "drop center" rim would be any "modern"(post 1935) auto rim where the center of the wheel rim is lower than the bead shoulders - ie: the center of the rim forms a "gutter".The early rims where pretty-much "straight" across the rim section. (these can be a bear to change tires on)I would be very surprised if a 1925 -anything (including Rover) had "drop-center" wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken G Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Thank you, everyone. As far as I could tell, the beads of the tire with the split tube were not adhering to the wheel, so I could push the tire sideways without any trouble. If I do anything to the tire/wheel myself, I obviously would prefer not to have to prise the tire bead over the wheel rim (and at present I have only one tire iron, that came with the car and probably was part of the original tool kit). However the tip about working from the back of the wheel is good and wouldn't have occurred to me until it was too late.The next task is to obtain one or two flaps of the appropriate size. Meanwhile I just have to hope I don't have a puncture and have to put on the 1950's agricultural trailer tire that is my only spare at present!Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Wolf Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 On a separate rim/wheel there is no removing one side?you take the rim out from inside the tire both beads at the same time.If you have a screw type tire changer you and do it from the back without leaving any marks that will show. Just make sure when you expand the rim the tool in an area that will be covered by the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken G Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Just to complete the circle, so to speak, I obtained a couple of wide flaps from Universal Vintage Tire, and one of them has gone on the spare. Once I produced one, the man at the tire shop sort-of admitted that they were necessary, but I wish he had said so a year ago! I still have no idea whether the tires on the actual wheels on the car have flaps or not.Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Well take one off and see for goodness sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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