Worlds oldest Buick????

[Guest sintid58]

Traveling In Kansas the other day I saw a sign advertising The Worlds Oldest Buick at Prairie Village in Minden Ne. Does anyone know anything about this. I was thinking maybe a carraige but after quickly looking at their web site it says something about David Buicks first engine. It looks like a very interesting place but knowing advertising of some of these places I have to wonder what the world oldest Buick means to them.

[GSTURBO]

It is indeed the oldest Buick still around.There may be older ones still not found so keep looking. Norb

[The Old Guy]

It is the oldest documented Buick. It is a 1905 model "C" they also have a Buick stationary engine. This is the only Buick stationary engine I have seen.

[Guest 70 Electra]

Well....not counting Kevin Johnson's 1904 Buick. This uses an original engine, but the rest of the car has been fabricated (largely from GM blueprints). Regardless of whether you consider it a re-creation or a restoration, it is spectacular and was at Flint and Cranbrook last summer.

[Guest kevin]

Greg,

Thanks for the compliment on the car.

For those who are not familiar with the 1904 project and to be fair to the car, there are more original 1904 and parts unique to only 1904 and 1905 on this car verses fabricated parts. Though the 1904 and 1905 look virtually identical, that are many differences between them and many 1905 parts are not the same as 1904.

There are no parts on the car that were not originally designed for the car. We rejected many early parts because of those slight differences between the 1904 and 1905 cars. So many parts were rejected, another late 1905 or early 1906 vehicle can nearly be built.

The fabricated components include the dash mounted drip oiler, which was reverse engineered based on photographs, radiator, which the pieces were cast from originals, and can be found on the Nethercutt car, and 3 of the Eastwood Family 1905 cars, the 5th oldest 1905, as well as the 2nd oldest Buick. The major difference in the Radiator is that the 04 is about 1 inch longer. (more fins on the tubes)

The oil chamber was made by the original manufacturer Essex Brass at the time the Sloan vehicle was worked on in 1976.

The steering column case was also fabricated from the original 1905 case, but without the adjustable features. Internal gearing was found, however, due to wear, new replacement was used.

However, the remaining mechanicals are from original 1904 parts (axles,diff carrier, spindles, springs, transmission, flywheel) New differential/brake drums were made because internal gearing on original drums were way to worn.

Original fenders were located, and hood remade by Rootlieb.

Like any restoration there are many warn parts that get made because they can not be used again for safety reasons, as well as some pieces replaced for crispness sake such as nuts, bolts, rivets, linkage, tubing etc.....

The body is a rebuild which was done by probably the best wood body builder on the west cost, Vic Groah, who has the honor of working on the oldest Ford, Cadillac and Buick. Every joint, every technique that was used in the day was painstakingly done in this body. Thanks to having the second oldest 1905 buick, and access to the 5th oldest buick original body torn-down to be able to see original construction.

In reference to the vehicle in Minden, it is actually parts from several 1905 Buicks. It happens to have the oldest flywheel number, which has in turn designated it as the oldest Buick. As like the 1904 it is not all from the same original vehicle.

If anyone has the time to go out and see the Minden car, it is part of a wonderful unrestored collection of cars. The curator is very friendly and even suggested a 'Oldest Buicks' get-togther. He And I had a wonderful time looking and discussing details each others cars.

The second oldest 1905 buick happens to be parked next to the 1904 and will hopefully be displayed at the Buick Show when it comes to Los Angeles in 2007 if we are lucky enough. This 1905 is an all original car, and has been worked on by the most knowledgeable early Buick people, the late Doug and Warwick Eastwood, and Dougs son Pete. Without Warwicks and Petes support and knowledge, the completion of the 1904 and 1905 may never have happened or would have been significantly longer.

Of the 14 1905s remaining only a few are actually in their original factory build. At least 3 have parts from each others cars. Most have parts from found parts, as we would use when original are too far gone to restore. One even has all new metal work even though the originals were worth saving. Some have body work as extensive equal to a complete rebuild.

All the Early Buicks are all respectable in what ever state they are in and no matter how they were assembled. When one restores a car this early, one is happy to find any remaining parts when so few were made and few survived as original and many kept running by any means possible.

Every early Buick owner, not just 1905 owners, but all brass Buick car owners have wonderful pieces of history and should be encouraged to show them and educate the public. Very few ever make it to the shows I attend.

For an overview of the earliest Buicks check out this article by Larry Gustin.

http://1929buick.com/articles/index.html?id=00003

For more pictures of all of the remaining 1905s, the 1904, and for history on the Marr Car, designed by Walter Marr, Buicks Lead Engineer, and LOTS LOTS more,

check out:

http://www.1904buick.com/gallery/

Kevin

[Guest my3buicks]

not the oldest but this 1906 G is great fun on a sunny day - a friend owns this one and this picture shows he and my son out for a "chilly" afternoon drive. When I ride in it I marvel that I am actually riding in one of earliest of Buicks, production of the 06 G was 193

[Guest kevin]

Keith,

The Model G is a wonderful car. My first brass car was a 1907 Model G. To this day, it is still one of my favorites.

Does this car belong to Randy Hall? if so I have another picture of either the same, or similar car.

http://1929buick.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=1906G&id=aac

One thing I forgot to post on the previous post was section I am building on the web site. It is an online version of both Handbook of Gasoline Automobiles and Original Buick Literature, along with additional literature and/or pictures of each model.

Take a look.

http://1929buick.com/models/

Kevin

[Guest my3buicks]

yes, it is Randy's. He has opened my eyes to the joy of the early cars, I always enjoyed looking at them, but now I am very intrigued by them. He lives a couple miles from me and is a member in the Greater Pittsburgh Area Chapter with me. He has promised to teach me to drive the brass cars although I have to start on his Model T. Here is another picture of some of his other brass eara Buicks.

[Guest kevin]

Keith,

You will have fun with the Buick..... Here are the rules I have been told to follow

1) Accelerate with the spark advance - primarily because the crank and case are weak and are notorious for braking under extreme torque. Old cast crank was terrible.

2) Brake by engaging reverse

3) until a better understanding of when to use the throttle move the spark and throttle up or down together.

4) use the brake only when stopped or nearly.

5) Oil everything. I even subscribe to over oil. The last thing I want to do is score or brake something 100 years old. Though too much oil can be bad too.

6) Listen to the car, it will tell you what you need to do.

There are more tips, but suprise him with this.

Kevin

[Centurion]

Kevin, thank you for furnishing the links to the photos of the earliest Buicks. I'm thankful to see the interest in these early cars, which are a critical part of the Buick and automotive heritage.

I first had opportunity to ride in a brass era Buick last summer (Robb Johnson's 1909) as we traveled to Flint, and it was an experience I'll never forget.

[1937hd45]

Kevin, Thank you for the detailed info on the early Buicks. The attached photo was in a collection I bought years ago. Not the best quality, but it is marked 1905 Buick along the bottom edge. This was taken in the James Melton Collection after it moved to Florida in the early 1950's. Like so many cars that made up the great early collections I wonder where it is today.

[Guest kevin]

That is a nice picture. This would be nice to add to the collection of early photos. May I?

One thing that I have had to do over the past couple of years is become a detective and look at lots of pictures to understand what is what.

This vehicle here appears to be a Model F, either a 1906 or 1907. There are many differences in the F and the 1905 C, but in this photo only a couple of items can be used in distinction.

One, the metal cowl over the firewall. That first appeared on the 1906 model F and G. The 1904 B and 1905 C only had the wood firewall, and no metal cover.

Two, the fenders have the 06,07 rounded tip with side panel vs the bat wing tip found on the 1905.

Three, there are rear brake drums on the rear axle. Original 1905s had brakes on the differential. This is not an absolute in determining as many people swap them out because they actually want to stop.

And last, it is hard to see, but it appears the it has a front radiator, as found on the 06 and 07 F and G. The C did not have a radiator in the normal place, but which hung down below the frame.

If someone asked me to date it I would say Late 6 or 7. Some of the 1906 vehicles did have the same differential brakes on them. But it is hard to say for sure. The restoration appears to have left the spokes unpainted and the body color in a non-standard color. Because of this, the folks could have updated it both for safety and for their own liking.

Either way, It is a great picture and thanks for sharing. I hope to one day be able to have a mini encyclopedia of original photos, diagrams, and current photos of the brass era Buicks.

I would bet we could find out where it is. I wont promise anything, but I would bet someone in the 2 cylinder Buick club might know some one who knows someone.

Kevin