55PACKARD Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 What type of fluid should we be using in these tran's and does anyone offer a filter kit so i can change out the old fluid and filter?Thanks G... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I use Dexron III in all four of mine and I believe that is what is generally accepted as applicable, but there may be different opinions. I have used the Dexron III in the '53 for 10 years now and the '55 Patrician for 6 or so years. Cannot answer about the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Thanks for the reply..I think my trans is starting to act up a little i thought a filter change might help..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 The oil filter is a brass screen type, which is just washed out, you may get by with draining the fluid from the transmission and the torque converter and washing out the filter. I have also added a magnet in the oil pan to pick up some of the fine metal that floats around. Currently I'am rebuilding a friends 55 Ultramatic, replacing bushings, reverse clutch and the high range plates. Originally I opened it to find out why the front seal leaked so bad, then found the front bushing was bad, and got worse as i took it apart. Here is a pic of the clutches,band and of the brass oil filter. Depending on your problems, maybe a bottle of Trans medic or similer may fix your problems, I also had problems with my 54 Patrician and a bottle fixed the shifting problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 My problems i think are weird the car will drive fine for awhile then when it warms up it seems to get lazy,if i park it the next time i get in it i have to give it alot more gas to move almost like a high speed torque convertor on a performance car then after i get going it seems fine again,at first i thought it might be the brakes locking up then freeing themselves as i got moving it still might be that not sure??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Some have recommended Type-F tranny fluid because of better friction characteristics. There's at least one thread on this forum about it.I use Dexron III also, with no problems, but the T-U in my 55 Pat does act differently when hot compared to cold. When cold, it upshifts and converter locks strongly and earlier in the rpm vs load range. When hot, these are delayed. Mine also "surges" on long grades under normal throttle. This is supposed to be cured by using Type-F, but I haven't tried it yet.If I were you and were going to completely drain [color:"red"] BOTH the tranny and the converter and clean the filter, I would refill with Type-F.For what it's worth, I replaced all the fluid in TH-350 in my turbocharged Firebird project car with Type-F when I installed the 400. No problems yet with 500 ft-lb torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Albert: In your opinion is the T-Ultra (i have a 56) a good strong transmission suitable for trailer pulling up to say 2000 pounds???? Are the internals, gear sets, bands clutches etc heavy enuf for a 2000 pound trailor????Are u rebuilding with Kevlar linings????? Any mods u make????BTW i run the Dexron III and and after about 5K miles the direct drive groan has disappeared except for very rare occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 Is this normal for the trans to act this way when hot i mean cold it seems fine but boy when it heats up i have to pray it going to move when it gets going it fine again but its that first time when you get back in it i get worried.... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardi Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Albert -How brave must one be to attempt an Ultramatic rebuild? I've done many things to my cars, but never got into either manual or automatic transmissions. How many special tools are required and where could they be purchased or borrowed? For a novice,is this a job to be farmed out, DIY in 40 hours of work or more? Is service life extended appreciably with newer materials i.e. Kevlar, etc? My car is a '55.Thanks,Bernardi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 You may want to check the low range band adjustment, my 54's tranni did not want to drop out of the lockup mode, but the car had been sitting for 20 years before I put it back on the road, so things where a little stiff. The only thing major that i had to do with the tu was to re build the parking paul and the gear, as we had problem with it sticking in park on a slight hill. If you plan on doing any towing with a trailer i would put in an extra air cooled oil cooler on the tranni just to make sure, making sure the oil passes through it last. I have also been thinking of pulling a 15 foot house trailer with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Bernardi, The Packard flat rate manual to the ultramatic 51-54 only has 7.5 hours to rebuild the tranni and 3.5 hours to R&R the tranni, as far as tools go a good torque wrench and dial indicator is about all you need, the other special tools you can get around. the 51-54 the manual call for a special tool for finding the correct takeup washer, I used a piece of plasti-guage bolted the bell housing on and then took it off to see what gap i had. If any one wants a copy of the flat rate manual for the 1941-53 Packard's, let me know as i have it in a word doc file, most is the same as the 55-56 except for the V8..Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John N. Packard Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Albert, I rebuilt a Gear-start Ultramatic to install in my '54 Patrician. I can't get the torque converter to fully seat in the transmission. Any thoughts as to what might be the problem?jnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 John, you have to turn the convertor till it slides in, then turn it again till it slides in further. My memory says I had to do that three times on my 56 - which is close relative of gear-start.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 yes you sometimes have problems getting the torque comverter back in ,pushing and turning it, sometimes even tapping the torque converter with a rubber hammer helps. Also the torque converter do stick out of the bell housing quit a bit.. Try measuring the distance the flywheel is resecesed into the back of the motor and compare that to the amount the torque converter protrudes out of the tranni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John N. Packard Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Thanks Randy & Al. That little trick of continuing to rotate the converter did not appear in my shop manual.jnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52deluxe Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 i have been running type F for some time now and will not put dextron III back in the trans. it just seems to work better with type F, the direct drive clutch seems to engage more firmly. also the surging up a slight grade at light throttle is almost non existent and only happens at about 70mph, even then its very very slight. i have driven well over 5000 miles with type F and have had no adverse effects.just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 5, 2004 Author Share Posted June 5, 2004 Thanks for the advice..I found it to be a bad rear wheel cylinder so i replaced now the brakes are perfect...So i can now say it has nothing to do with the brakes..I think the trans is showing its age a little when cold or even driving it for awhile its perfect,but after it heats up thats when i notice i have to give it more gas to move it almost like if the e-brake was on but its not <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />,So i guess i will have to change the fluid soon and see what goes from there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 Thanks B.H. i was told today at a carshow i was at the my trans has 2 diferent positions drive with the left arrow drive with the right arrow then low and reverse...i only get 2 drives low and the drive with the arrow to the left if i put in on the arrow to the right the car just stays in low gear whats going on here????? Is there an adjustment for this and how do you go about do this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 It sounds like a problem with the rear pump BUT before you do anything major, try changing to type F tranny fluid and check the adjustment on the accelerator linkage to tranny. After you have determined that is not the problem, you may have to dig into the tranny. If you don't have a shop manual, now is the time to buy one. YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Brian, the fellow who rebuilt my trans had that tool, but never used it since it was a complete rebuild, not a repair. I have seen a lot of "adjustments" on the accelerator linkage by people who do not have a shop manual and do not understand what is being adjusted and how it affects shifting. But you are right, I wouldn't touch anything till I cover the bases by installing fresh F-type fluid.By the way, that is how we found out the rear pump was flawed - it drove and shifted fine until it warmed up and then would not upshift. The rear pump supplies the pressure for controlling the trans. A close examination of the color pressure schematics shows that. I thought I had a bad governor (or two) but rebuilder said he had never seen a governor go bad.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) The diamond/arrow to the left of the "D" on '55 models corresponds to "D" on a '56 - <span style="font-style: italic">Drive Range</span>. In this range, the trans starts out in low gear (snip)The diamond/arrow to the right of the "D" on a '55 corresponds to "H" on a '56 - <span style="font-style: italic">High Range</span>. In this range, the trans starts out in high gear (snip)</div></div>Brian: you have this backward for the 55. Low gear start is the "diamond" next to "L". No low gear start (converter only) is to the left, next to "N". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Brian, you need the gauges to go along with it - he has those too. You are absolutely right about adjusting the throttle pressure. My rebuilder said he never touches that even on complete rebuilds because he is just bringing it back into spec. Installing the adapter uses up an extra pan gasket also.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Brian, you're right. By looking at the pressure test form, you can tell what kind of gauges you will need. The hoses supplied with the gauges didn't look good enough to me, but apparently they worked OK. A good pan gasket on the bottom of the adapter and a homemade one on top should suffice. Then you just need the two extensions to reach the fluid, you could make those.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw a set of three gauges pictured in the shop manual, but figured if I knew the working range, I could get equvialent, individual gauges in the aftermarket, and work up a good piece of plywood to hold 'em all.</div></div>If anyone is interested in pictures, I have a set of these gauges and the fittings (actually I don't think they're all that uncommon). Let me know and I'll post some.I've seen them on e-bay every once and a while - although not one in some time now.Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hey Guys i was wondering i heard you can put in a 727 torqueflight chrysler trans in these car with an adaptor plate is this true and where do i go about buying this piece to do this swap just in case my trans quits on me i can have a back up plan already..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 About two years ago I made a purchase from a fellow in Illinois. I believe he advertised in the for sale section of the forum. What I purchase was a three book set Tilted THE MOST COMPLETE SERVICE BOOK ON ULTRA DRIVE. This comes in three books. The section contains 1949 to 1956 Shop manuals. Shop supplements for the 25th series, 56th series, 56th series push button supplement,1956 Golden Hawk shop manual, complete flow charts, preasure test forms, torque specifications.Second book titled Section Two (Factory modifications and running changes1949-1956 Packard Ultramatic service counselors, 1949-1956 Packard ultramatic service bulletins,1956-1961 Packard ultramatic service bulletins.Third book (Parts Listing)1950-1956 Packard ultramatic, 1956 Golden hawk ultramatic, 19555-56 Hudson ultramatic.The complte manual is over 700 pages and covers everything from A to Z. Does anyone else have this set af manuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Brian, another "why didn't I think of that?". Your suggestion for a source of materials is an excellent idea and would be extremely helpful to newbies AND some <span style="font-style: italic">old folks</span> as well <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Any and all printed material from Packard's TSBs to Stelfords notes can be in there with a brief explanation of the subject and the data it contains.We used to give "attaboys" at work for good ideas - Attaboy Brian.Just remember it takes three attaboys to get rid of one awsh_t.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Brian, drifting the car to start it seems like a good diagnostic tool. Our 52 Mayfair had a bad battery once and while reading through the owners manual I came across the statement that the car could be started approximately 25 mph. That tranny only had LOW and HIGH and it said to use HIGH. I tried it and it worked. Later discovered it would work just a little over 15 mph. Always dropped it in HIGH, never used LOW. The 400 will kick over just as easily - tried it as an experiment. It will tell you if the rear pump is working - although that might change as the fluid warms up and thins out.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Re: T-U Diagnosis GaugeHere are some pictures. Sorry for the delay, things are hectic here and I'm just catching up.Let me know if anyone wants any other shots of this.....Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Re: T-U Diagnosis Gauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Re: T-U Diagnosis Gauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Re: T-U Diagnosis Gauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how long are the hoses on this original tool? </div></div> Brian:They're all about 48" long.Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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