A/C Conversion to 134-A

[justfish89]

The A/C System on my '90 Reatta has a leak and once repairs have been made I'm thinking about converting the system over to 134-A refrigerant because of the very high cost of R-12 . I'm looking for some input from those of you who have made this "switch" or may have experience with it . Do you feel that the 134-A system provides air as cold as and as quickly as R-12 ? These factors are important to me as my car is a Convertible and they are much more difficult to cool than a Coupe . Thanks , in advance , for your input .

Danny Walker

'90 Reatta Convertible

Red / Tan / Tan W/Black Mldg.

16-Way Seats & C D Player

105,000 Miles & Still Going Strong

[wastephens]

Danny, 134-A does not cool you down as fast at least in my 90 Reatta it does take a little awhile longer to get cool, but you can get it cold also.

[Guest spongebob]

my 90 has the 134 in it(was purchased with the conversion). 134 isnt as fast to cool, but it will get there. i would have used r-12 if it were me.

im doing a whole system on my 86 chevy truck, and will be using r12.

r12 is coming down in price, call around..

im curious, where was your leak, and how was it repaired??

[padgett]

Have two cars and a TranSport, all 3800s converted to 134A. It does just fine in Central Florida, yesterday had to change from AUTO to LOW fan because my feet were getting too cold (& raised temp from 72 to 75).

New dryer, oriface tube, full and proper flush & evacuation, plus someone who knows how much to put in (less than R-12) is critical to freeze you out vs so-so operation.

Of course I also raised the idle to 700 and run the engine at 180 to help (both fans on HI at 189) but that doesn't affect Interstate travel.

[Shelby]

If you have had a leak or just through normal driving , there is a fuzzy looking crud that collects on the condenser.

Cleaning it with some citrus based brake cleaner ,then a citrus base cleaner , then lots of hot water will realy make your A/C work better.

You will need to reach it bu removing the fan and the electronic control on the condenser box.

If and when you need a compressor put in a NEW Compressor , Dryer and orfice tube.

Have the A/C tech evauate the system Twice to get if nice and clean.

[Guest Buick Mike]

IMO, converting an R-12 system to 134-A is like making a mongrel out of a purebred. R-12 is a better refrigerant. Our system was designed for R-12. This seems like a no-brainer to me.

It does cost more... about $100 or so extra, but after it's fixed, it's fixed. It's not like you have to continually add refrigerant or anything. I typically get about 4 years out of an A/C system so over the service life the extra cost approaches insignificance.

Down here where A/C is almost the most important part of the car, I find that my R-12 cars cool better than my (factory) 134-A car... for whatever that is worth.

Mike

[RatReatta]

my reatta was converted to 134 a in 99. im not sure why it was done as i got the car in 02. the air works but not too well, ive had it checked out and nothings wrong with it, it just isnt powerful enough for a black car with leather interior in florida,it works but by the time you can really feel it you have a sweaty back. from what other people are saying it may be better to stick with the origional system because apparently it works pretty well. good luck

[Reatta25]

I have 134 in my van, and it is not as cold as 12, but it is tolerable.

Too often, it is NOT a matter of replacing the R-12 once and then everything is

okay. Keeping leaks fixed in these systems is not always that final.

You may also come to the day when you can't get R-12 at any price. That seems

a little extreme, but is possible. Remember the fate of Chlordane and DDT.

You can't legally get it in the USA now at any price, so far as I know.

[Guest spongebob]

r-12 is still available and legal to use..i bought 3 30lb containers of the stuff for $30 per/lb.

[Shelby]

The Catch-22 of the the R-12/R134 systems is that the New and many of the the reman compressors are not R-12 compatible.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

i'm using Enviro-Safe. go to their web-site and take a look.

http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm

[Guest spongebob]

actually any r-12 compressor will run any r-12 replacement freon..i have used r-401a..(and was told(by the people that certified me) the hype on the 134 was just that). auto compressors will run either, the oil is what is different. that can be changed...if it really bothers you.

[Guest imported_wmptom]

Recently converted to 134, and so far it seems adequate. Buick dealer did it. My leaks(s) were coming from the compressor, so that went with the conversion. A costly number, and the blower module just quit this week. Unless you are in a really really hot area, I'd go with the conversion though.

[bnelson]

I just got my 1988 Reatta swithed over to 134-A and the sucker blows out cold air after just a min or two of running and with now being switched over refilling is just a matter of going to the auto store and buying a refill kit. Just wanted you all to know that my switch over went really quick 2 1/5 hrs in the shop total and cost me only $148.86 for all the parts and labor.

[Guest Greg Ross]

Had my conversion done several years ago, the only odd thing I encounter and I assume it has to do with the volume/ weight of 134a on board;

If I leave the Climate Control set on "Auto" and the outside temperature is below, say 10 deg C (50 deg F) I get the "low freon" warning and it sets the appropriate code-B446 I think it is.

Had the System checked twice and the result has been the same, they claim the correct weight of 134a is in place, no leaks and works just great.

[Guest DTerry]

I'm not understanding all the 134a problems. I have two cars with factory 134 that will absolutely freeze you, and two home-grown $40 kit conversions that will cool adequately but not quite as quickly as the factory installations. I have to add a can of refrigerant about once every six months to each of the conversions, which I get on sale for less than two dollars. Had another that was still working great several years after conversion when I gave the car away.

I converted each because they had slow leaks, and rather than pay hundreds for repair I just converted them, knowing I could keep them charged myself for almost nothing.

No warranties, neither expressed nor implied.

[padgett]

I think it really comes down to two issues: where you are and how good the conversion was.

People think of Orlando as being very hot but as the saying goes "it is not the heat, its the humidity", actually it rarely goes over 95F but is close to that every day for three months (our winter - utility bills go up and you do not go outside unless you must).

What makes people wilt is the high humidity but interestingly, a/c works better in dense wet air than dry air.

So really from an a/c standpoint, Orlando is more benign than Vegas.

The critical part of the conversion is getting the system really really flushed and evacuated. The fill process is also critical because you use less R-134A than R-12 and with too much it does not cool properly. On the Bonneville it just works very well. On my Reatta they had to juggle the fill a few ounces to get it right and now it does also.

The other factor is that the R-134A pressures are higher, about 10% more than R-12. Since this is related to ambient temperature, in Orlando where the normal high is 92-93F the pressures are lower than a place that runs 105F daily (though our TranSport which is also converted did very well in the KC heat wave last summer).

The other factor is airflow through the radiator. I have lowered the fan settings so that the LO fan comes on at 185 and HI at 190 and am thinking about dropping the setting to 183 and 187 (off at 181 and 185). I have also increased the idle speed 10% from 625 to 700 just to keep everything moving a little faster.

I have heard a lot of pros and cons about a different or variable oriface tube. It would make sense that if R-134A has a different density that a different tube would also be required however there does not seem to be a consensus here.

What I do know is that R-134A seems a bit more sensitive to the proper fill than R-12, you cannot just "toss in a can" and expect 100% performance.

Am a bit less experienced here since a/c is something I leave to a local shop that I have used for years however will do the Fiero myself when I get around to it. As most everything related to the Reatta, you really need to understand what you are doing and take care doing it for everything to work properly. Unless you are just lucky.

[Guest DTerry]

Funny you should mention it. I had intended to add another line: "Maybe I'm just lucky". It shore ain't expertise.

[justfish89]

spongebob , The leak was at the fitting where the orifice tube goes in . The A/C Tech said it was "loose---probably due to vibration" . I did convert to the 134-A after installing a new orifice tube . The repair and conversion was completed Monday evening and so far , I'm pleased with the results .

Thanks , to all , for your input .

Danny Walker

'90 Reatta Convertible

Red / Tan / Tan W/Black Mldg.

16-Way Seats & C D Player

106,000 Miles & Still Going Strong