newbie needs help with 67 skylark convertible

[angelman]

Firstly I apologise if I ask some dumb questions but I am a total newbie in this area.

quick background info...

I just bought a sexy (well I think so) 67 skylark convertible from a dealer for $12900. I am sure I did everything wrong, didnt haggle the price (well I tried feebly but it wasnt going anywhere), did get it checked out by a mechanic who gave it the all clear except for a leak in the transmission and the brakes. The dealer mentioned that the brakes needed work well bleeding anyway at the time of purchase. He said that he would have this fixed before I bought it.

Anyway we took the car to his mechanic who looked it over and said that he would fix the transmission and the brakes. He didnt.. I took it back a week later and he tried again but no success. He now says that the transmission needs to be rebuilt, the engine should be rebuilt at the same time and that the whole brake system should be redone for good measure. This seems a little over the top for what appears to be a skylark in excelelnt condition (no rust, well maintained, perfect interior/exterior, allmost all original components etc.)

what should I do? whats reasonable to ask of a garage in this situation. The car drives fine except for the following:

brakes sometimes need to be pumped by work fine very well in general (probably need a new power cylinder)

There is a crunching noise from the wheels at low speeds (5mph), I think this is due to the new brake pads that were fitted that may be slightly uneven I dont know if this is very serious though

There is a slight juddering at 20mph (almost exactly), maybe problem with transmission?

there is a kind of metallic clinking sound as if a piece of metal (like the exhaust) was dragging on the ground. Looking under the body everything is totally fine, no rust, exhaust is in great condition, nothing falling off, any ideas on this. I thought the engine might be pinging and tried fuel enhancer with top quality fuel but no difference.

When the car is laden ie. 4 people in it turning can be tricky since the wheels seem to rub on the arches. Is this normal for this kind of car. Should I get less fat tires or just not turn such tight corners?

I dont mind if some of these are small flaws that wont screw up the car but I dont want to drive around whilst unknowingly screwing up the engine and car in general doing a whole heap of damage to it.

I would post a pic of all this but I lost my camera the other week

I want to learn as much as possible about this car since I know precious little. so any advice would be very much apreciated.

Many thanks

[Guest my3buicks]

A few questions to answer for us first. 1 - Mileage? 2 - Engine?

3 - tire size?

for $12,900 you should have gotten a REALLY nice Skylark needing little to nothing not a show car but really nice- am I reading right that these repairs are suggested by the dealers mechanic? - If so, another opionion is in order.

We will hit some of the subjects once we know a little more about the car.

[angelman]

ok here more info....

sorry forgot to say it is a convertible 300 (i assume this is ci) engine v8

had some new suspension put in at some time and I think new exhaust. Otherwise the engine is fairly much as is

done 89700 miles odd

The body is pretty much mint, not show (few very minor paint retouches, gravel scratches but very minor) almost not rust (not much rain here in LA), looks like there is a leak in the seal of the trunk lid since there is some very mionr surface rust in the trunk and I noticed a little water when it rained (contrary to previous comment!) the other day.

Not sure of the wheel size, will have to check that out. I looked at another skylark (GS model though) at a show the other day and the wheels on that looked a little less fat than mine.

Mine has the original rims I think.

The power hood works perfectly, all the seals are pretty much spot on, so all in all bodywise its perfect I think. Certainly had many admiring comments from people on the street, parking attendents, the police even!

Just these niggling engine/brake issues.

My mechanic recommended (at the pre-purchase check) that I get new drums and pads and have the transmission leak fixed

dealers mechanic said go for the more extensive reapirs.

Now the dealer said (though nothing in writing - see I told you I did it all wrong!) that I would have 30 days warranty on engine/brakes etc. He seems col about it and I think in general he is OK. I just want to know what kind of level of service I should expect from him.

Weirdly at the car show (well the hop at bob's bug boy burgers in Burbank for anyone that knows it) a guy said "hey is that randys car', I said ' no its mine', he said well that used to be randy's - its a great great car you got there... he was a friend of the previous owner'. Unfortunately I lost him so couldnt ask him more questions.

Like I said I am not too fussed about the brakes even though would rather they were perfect, I just dont want to drive it if I am killing it a the same time.

Of course being in LA I need tha car every day so its very inconvenient putting it in for repairs. It is my only car (every english guys dream to drive an american classic - gas is SO SO CHEAP here contrary to what you guys think

[Guest my3buicks]

It sounds as if you do need a complete brake job, new wheel cylinders - the works - have it done right.

Engine - certainly shouldn't need rebuilt unless the dealer know something you don't

Have the tranny checked by a reputable tranny shop(if there is such a thing) - it might only need new seals. They often leak where the speedo cable goes in to the tranny either the O ring or sometimes the part that attaches there cracks(it's plastic)

Check or have checked your butterfly valve checked on your exhaust(it's between your manifold and Y pipe (unless converted to duals), they will often rattle loudly.

I'm betting the wheels are off a later model and will be interested to know the size.

I thik I would have your brakes worked on first - I think you may find that to resolve many of your issues.

Keep us posted.

[BigFella]

Join the local BCA too! There is a show in LA in the next month and one in Pasedena this Sunday. Information for both are posted on this very list! The folks in the local BCA can be your best resource as many of us have already been down these roads and know what to look for and how/where to get things fixed. I think the BCA site lists the LA chapter information. If not, the LA show should have ample representation from that chapter.

Welcome to the world of Buicks!

oh and if you love that car then the price was spot on! :-)

[angelman]

Thinking of joining the bca and of going to the pasadena show.

It was a purchase of love/desire etc. which is never a good thing but I tried my best to be a subjective as possible!

The tranny leak is coming from underneath, not from the pan though (I think the mechanic said) which is why he thought it had to be rebuilt. Sorry I am not too technical with cars which is why I am hoping to learn, and indeed am learning. These older cars are great for understanding all the parts that make up an engine since you can actually see everything thats going on and there is so much space!

The car does have dual exhausts so I guess thats not the problem. Really I guess it needs to be jacked up so that it can be properly observed from underneath. The clinking sound only occurs when moving, ie. not when just revving the engine. It sounds like its coming from around middway down the car, ie. not from under the hood. Its kind of intermittent and maybe slightly worse when the car is first started...

well maybe I will see some of you down at pasadena.. look out for a bewildered looking english guy with a metallic burgundy/brown skylark and a big grin on his face

[Gene Brink]

Newbie,

If you are hitting the Toluca Lake Bob's on cruise night you have to go to Pasadena for the San Gabriel Valley Buick Club show next Sunday in Pasadena. Right in front of city hall and easy to find (link is: Pasadena Show. Lot's of folks there that will be able to give you some good tips on reliable shops that can work on your car (as well as being fun - usually 80-100 cars there with a number of 60's).

Happy cruising!

[Guest my3buicks]

try taking your center caps off your wheels and driving it. These often rattle and clink.

[JohnD1956]

Here are a few things to check, to try and find that rattle from under the car.

Look underneath the front of the car. Lay right down on the ground in front, and look towards the rear bumper. About 12 inches from the front, is a thick metal bar which runs perpendicular to the length of the car. This bar may go through a bracket on each side of the car, right where the frame of the car is. There should be rubber bushings in the brackets which the bar runs through. Sometimes these bushings dry out and fall out, leaving the bar to bang against the frame every time the car goes over a bump. Also, this bar is connected to the lower suspension by a "link". There should be a link on each end of the bar, connected to the lower A frame of the suspension on each side. Make sure these are in place and push the bar around to see if this is the cause of your rattle.

If this is not the problem, lay down on the ground on the drivers side of the car. Looking underneath towards the passenger side there should be the parking brake cable. Usually these are held very taught even when the parking brake is not set. There may be three separate cables to this system, and if one is broken, then there could be some rattling from one or more of the parts. Also, these cables are usually held up close to the floor pans of the car by heavy duty c style hooks. There is usually one on each side of the car generally attached to the heavy piece of frame that goes across the car under the back of the transmission. If either is missing, more opportunities for rattles.

If neither of these check out, take the car back to YOUR mechanic and ask about the universal joints on the drive shaft.

By the way, be sure to put some blocks in front of and behind at least one tire before laying under or in front of the car. Make certain that the car cannot roll, or be started while you're down there. You need the parking brake off to check those cables.

Let us know if you find any of these to be the problem.

[angelman]

hmm.. it may be a problem with the parking break since that doesnt seem to work anyway. When I try and press the parking brake pedal it wont go anywhere... so perhaps that is what has happened..

my main problem now is that the car wont start! I know this is a question with a myriad of answers but any ideas to start with. Usually I have to pump the gas a little in the morning and then it starts fine every time. This morning I did this, it fired up briefly and then died and now it wont start again.

looks like I will have to call AAA I guess

[JohnD1956]

Lets see! 89K? Probably sat for several years awaiting a buyer. Runs for a little while then one day starts and drops dead...I bet it's the timing chain. I've had multiple Buicks. Once GM started with the nylon coated gears, and until GM started putting tensioners on the timing chain (in the 88-92 range I believe) every single Buick I owned need a timing chain and gears at this point.

I would guess at a $400.00 estimate, which is kind of a shame since the parts are most likely well under $50.00. The good news is that if you have new timing gears installed at the same time , they should be the metal ones, and this will most likely outlast you and several generations of grandkids.

Go for it, because it's probably worth it, and you'll need these sooner than later I fear.

John d

[Guest imported_DaveZZZ]

I want to be the first to tell you not to get discouraged (shame on you guys ). These cars are a labor of love, but a labor indeed. And since labor = time and time = money...

But, as you learn more about the car, you'll probably do more and more yourself, and the pride ffrom that is indescribeable. It took me years to take the plunge, and I have never regretted it, even though I have spent the purchase price over again and I am still going (although, I dont think my Olds is in as nice condition as your Buick). So far most of the stuff you describe sounds nickel and dime. Get the service manual for the car, as well as a good general book for novices. You'll be amazed at how much is in the grasp of a novice with guidance from a good book.

As for noises, I went nuts trying to find a noise once, and it turned out to be a lose backing plate.

-Dave

[Guest Skyking]

I doubt that it would need a timing chain with only 89K miles. I bet it's still tight!

[centerman]

If your parking brake isn't working, maybe you should not be driving the car until you get those brakes working again and that includes the parking brake. It's also called an emergency brake. If you're pumping the brakes, something is wrong. And if the car hasn't been driven much, you could burst a brake hose or wheel cylinder real easy. Sounds like a real nice Skylark. Older cars always need some maintenance. I was at the bank drive-up this past weekend and a fairly nice late 70s maybe early 80s MGB convert was idling in the next lane. All of the sudden a water hose popped. Steam and water everywhere but that's possible with any older vehicle.

[angelman]

thanks for all the help and encouragement. I guess one of my main questions is how much I can expect from the garage I bought it from. Since I bought it for a fairly high price and the dealer of course gave me all the talk about what a great car it was and what perfect condition it was and how it would need no work at all (of course I did not necessarily believe any of it - always a cynic!). Can I expect him to put it all right for free, should I pay for parts and him for labour. Should I epect to pay the purchase price again a week after buying it to fix all tis issues?

The dealer seems ok (melrose autos in case anyone knows it) claims to have sold cars to daryl hannah no less. He has taken it in for a weeks work so I guess I hope he can fix it all up. Anyone know a good mechanic in the area. I have tried a guy in santa monica (van dusen autos) who seems reliable enough but maybe there is a buick specialist out there..

I believe it hasnt been kept in a garage and never driven. I met a friend of the previous owner who mentioned he had driven it from la to tenessee only 6 months back and that he had never had any problems.. maybe there lies my answer!

Where can I get a service manual from. I noticed someone selling a cd on ebay but not skylark specific. CAnt find too much info on skylarks in general on the web really, apart from general buick sites like this.

[Guest COMPACTBC]

Come to the Pasadena shown this Sunday and bring your car if you can. If you can't bring your car that is OK. I will be there as well as a lot of other Buick owners. You will be able to get a LOT of info from us that will be helpful to you.

[Guest trevor ward]

Nice to see another brit on the forum Welcome...

You have certainly come to the right place, you'll get loads of great advice

and i wish i had your gas prices , 'cos i am still in blighty and it costs a

bomb to fill it up

Good luck with the Skylark .... and where do you come from back home????

Trevor.... '64 Le Sabre..... waiting for some sunshine

[angelman]

I will try to get pasadena if I can. I might be going to the pomona show too though. My car is still at the garage so only have my crappy hire car to drive. Very strange going from the giant buick with its idiosyncratic and patchy brakes, giant engine to this tiny hyunda which brakes on a sixpence and barely uses any gas at all... but looks like crap with all the character of a wet blanket

I am from london and only just moved here. Thinking vaguely about shipping the buick back to Uk when I leave.. in about 3 years time or so. but it depends if I can turn some osrt of a profit from it since there is no way I could have it and drive it in london!

Gas prices here are just wrong. its insane to have it so cheap, no wonder we have so much trouble in the world! but hey lets not get political.. and just have some fun in the great old cars (hypocritical I know)

[angelman]

looks like it is the timing chain. The garage just phoned me and thats what they reckon.

Now the dealer said that I would have a 30 day warranty cinluding engine and transmission. Sine I only had the car for a week or so would it be reasonable for him to repair this free of charge, or should I expect to at least pay for the parts.

CAn you explain what a timing chain is/looks like or anything else I should know so that I can at least argue my position and sound a little like I know what I am talking about!

[Guest COMPACTBC]

Did you get a copy of the "30 day warranty"? If so read it, if not get a written copy of it. Then you will have the answer to a lot of your questions.

The timing chain is a metal chain on the front of the engine that keeps the crank shaft,valve timing and distributor all in sink with each other so the car will run. When the chain gets worn and stretched it will skip a tooth on the timing gear and throw everything out of firing order so the car will not start.

Going to the Pomona Swap meet is mostly a waist of time for a Buick owner, it is mostly Chev, Corvette,VW,Ford stuff and they have them several times a year. Going to the once a year Pasadena Car show would be a whole lot more informative for a Buick owner.

[angelman]

ok latest installment of the saga...

warranty is basically worthless, in so far as it covers only things that were found to be at fault at time of purchase or some such thing.

Anyway dealer is charging me $380 for timing chain and cogs etc, pretty much bang on what the guy earlier estimated.

then a further $300 to fix the brakes and transmission issues (new rotors, master cylinder)

with tax and everything come to around $900..

I cant see I have much choice or do I?

Anything else I should consider getting done at the same time?

[Guest my3buicks]

You might want to check on legal avenues. You paid good money for this car and yes, all old cars need this or that, but your looking at some major things for a car costing that much. Let the dealer know your going to file with the Better Business Bureau. That might help him find a few extra dollars to help you out.

[angelman]

essentially he is saying that he is just a broker for the car. He was selling the car on behalf of someone else and thus is not responsible for it. I guess my take on the situation is that I dont care what his position was, I bought it from him and thats that! I dont want to fall out with this guy and he seems helpful enough but at the same time I dont want to get totally ripped off. I guess really he should take the matter back to the guy he was selling the car for (to whom he has already given my cash too).

[JohnD1956]

That dealer is just taking you for a ride! Period!

Here's what you might want to do. You will never recoup your investment unless the car is running. So , spend the $380 on the timing chain, PROVIDED the price includes the timing chain, and BOTH gears. Make sure the job will include all three parts. If you want to save additional money on labor, have him throw on a new water pump at the same time. This is another traditionally weak part, and a lot of the labor required for the timing chain is also required for the water pump.

Then make friends with someone who is, or knows a classic car mechanic. Ask at work if someone has an interest in old cars and see if you can get their mechanic. If no luck, take the car to the busiest local non- chain auto parts store. Ask the counter man in the store for new wheel cylinders and a new Master cylinder. THEN ask for the name of a reliable local mechanic. You may not find the cheapest mechanic, but you will probably find a competent one.

I say new wheel cylinders, because chances are your low pedal is caused by a leak there, where you really can't see it. The brake dust inside the brake drums is sopping up the leakage since it is slow, and the brake fluid evaporates. This happened to me once on my 56 Buick. It took me several months to finally pull all the brake drums where upon the problem was readily evident.

You may not need the master cylinder, so have the mechanic install the wheel cylinders first and maybe you can return the unused master cylinder. But if not, you will save the mechanics time, and thereby your money by having the parts on hand. Do not buy rotors ( drums) unless the mechanic says yours cannot be "turned" or salvaged.

One thing more. Even though you have the parts, offer to pay the mechanic's markup on the parts. This may cost you a small premium, however everytime I did this, the mechanic didn't charge me the markup. I figure by doing this, they realize that I know a bit more than average about their business, and I think I get better quality work. Of course, when I find a good mechanic I try to stick with them. Untill they estimate an exorbitant price for a job I know costs less.

Really, get the timing chain done. I have done many, so it's really no big deal but it is always a pain in the butt, and you do need a fair assortment of tools.

Then attack the brakes with a good mechanic.

Good luck

[Buicks Rule]

Ask yourself, do you honestly believe that this dealer has the skills or desire to repair the car to your satisfaction? It sounds like you're going to be footing the bill, no matter who does the repair. If you're stuck paying for it, you might be much better off taking it to a different shop.

The Pasadena Buick Show is Sunday. Not much work is going to happen on that car between Friday night and Sunday morning anyway. Find out the current bill you have incurred at this establishment and ask that all work be stopped until Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning, when you will either authorizet the repair or have the car transported elsewhere.

Go to the Pasadena show and talk to lots of Buick owners from Southern Cal, especially those with 60's Specials and Skylarks. Ask them for shop recommendations. You'll probably get some strong opinions.

Talk to a couple of the recommended shops Monday morning and decide which one is the best fit for you. Get some estimates from them based on the scope of the repairs noted as needed by the other shop. The dealer may be offering you a 'special' deal to use his shop. Find out if that 'special deal' is to your advantage or his.

Yes, you'll have a tow bill on top of everything else. And, you'll have to pay off the current guy, and take another day off work and so on. It'll be one more hassle.

But, although Buicks are very durable and very easy to work on for someone that understands them, they DO have some particular quirks that could be problematic if the current mechanic follows the "if it works on a Chevy, it'll work on a Buick" rule.

Guess it boils down to the following. If the dealer is footing all or a significant part of the repair bill, I could probably live with his shop. If I'm paying the bill, I'll pick a shop that I either know and trust or one that has been recommended to me by a number of people who know the area/know the cars.

GOOD LUCK! And, don't let this bad experience spoil you're enjoyment of the car when you get it back on the road. We've all been stuck by similar situations over the years. Best thing might be to find a mechanic YOU trust that will put the car back on the road safely and running well the first time.

[angelman]

well I am definately going.. in fact I am going to the show right after I write this.

I really appreciate all the help and advice. I think thats a good point about getting the timing chain done now and the rest later.

I guess the main problem I have is time. I cant take days off work and need my car of course. I need to factor in the cost of car hire as well...

But it maybe an idea to get the other things brakes etc. done by someone else... we shall see..

I will double check about the cogs. I am sure he is including that.. and the water pump and fuel pump too...

see some of you soon!