Judging rules for engine compartment paint

[Guest]

In my searches it appears that there was no particular rule for painting the engine compartment of late 30's Cad's and LaS's. Some appear to have been painted the same color as the car's exterior, some were painted chasis black, and still others would have other colors. Can someone tell me what judges normally look for in a paint scheme when judging a car's engine compartment, and even the underside of the body itself?

Thanks!!

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Rob...First, Welcome to the Forum.

You may want to post this query in the Cadillac and LaSalle Forum.

Scroll down on the Main Page where you will see General Motors Products and the Cadillac & LaSalle title. Possibly you will receive more expedient and knowledgeable responses.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Exactly what do you mean by the engine compartment? The engine itself, the underside of the hood, the firewall, the inner fenders or all of the above. give us more explicit areas of concern and I may be able to help you.

In simplest terms, it should be painted as it came from the factory. Never mind how you have seen other engine compartments painted.

Also, late '30s is a pretty general time period. Can you be more specific as to year. One person's "late" is another person's "late middle."

hvs

[DaveBerg]

I could be wrong on this because it has been awhile since I have researched the late 30's Cadillac but as I recall on models 1936 to 1948. The engine was painted dark green and the firewall and inner fenders were painted body color. I am going from memory but I believe that these were the factory specs. I would assume this would hold true for the LaSalle as well. As Howard mentions though the sure fire way of pleasing AACA National Judges is to do it as it was when it left the factory. Hope this helps.

[D Binger]

Peter,

You haven't given the AACA judges very much credit lately. Why do you send everyone to another forum?

Dan

[Guest]

Dave,

I believe the inner fenders are black, not body color, unless the body is BLACK.

The firewall is part of the body shell and was all painted together, but the inner fenders are bolted on parts, and so were not painted with the fenders. Also, even though a body might be black, the paint on the inner fenders would be of a less glossy finish. I believe the same applies to the underside of the hood. Engine room components are too often over restored to a high luster on cars shown for judging.

For what it is worth, Bill Hirsch's green Cadillac engine paint for the 37-48s is a good match to the original.

But no one should restore a car based solely on what someone tells them on the forum, Get factory documentation.

hvs

[6219_Rules]

I agree with Howard. Now mine is a late 40s car, but the engine compartment is black, flat black except for the grill shroud and radiator. The air cleaner is flat too. The manifold is enamaled in black. The engine is a kahki green. The hood is black and covered in a rust protectant that appears to have been original. Everything else on the engine was painted the kahki green including the water pump.

But definitely get as much factory information as you can. I think the Fischer Body manual covers that, doesn't it? It may not. I will look around and see what I find.

[Guest]

Thanks for the information. For specifics; it is a 1939 model 5019 LaSalle. I have good documentaion of the engine color, and I can see that the firewall was originally body color. What I need to determine is what was the color of the inside of the fender panels and the underside of the hood when the car left the factory. Again, thanks for your help.

[Guest]

My experience tells me that both items were a semi-flat black, but not a pure flat black. NOT high gloss black. But I am not factory documentation. ~ hvs

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my searches it appears that there was no particular rule for painting the engine compartment of late 30's Cad's and LaS's. Some appear to have been painted the same color as the car's exterior, some were painted chasis black, and still others would have other colors. Can someone tell me what judges normally look for in a paint scheme when judging a car's engine compartment, and even the underside of the body itself?

Thanks!! </div></div>

As primarily a builder of scale models of automobiles, in their factory stock configuration, I'm always looking for information, such as underhood colors, etc.

I had the opportunity to scope out a 1948 Cadillac sedan this past summer, which gave every evidence of its being a well-preserved original, not restored.

Yes, the engine was a dark green, with black porcelain enameled exhaust manifolding. But, on to the sheet metal:

The firewall was body color--this would be a natural, as with the advent of the all-steel body in the mid-30's at GM, body shells were painted by spray paint crews working freehand, with the body shells on dollies (a factory practice, which by the way, carried on all the way into the 1970's), and the firewall, finally becoming a solid part of the body shell was painted right along with the exterior. The undersides of almost all cars in those years (and on into the late 1970's as well) were left in a raw primer, or rust-control finish, which often approximates primer in appearance, with considerable overspray where the painters "ducked down" with their guns to spray the lower edges of the body shell and the lower edge of the firewall.

The inner fender panels (splash aprons) on this Cadillac were a well-worn flat or semi-gloss black, definitely were not body color, and they certainly did not have the look of ever having been a high-gloss finish. After all, it is the engine bay, and by the end of the Classic Era, appearance wasn't of much interest to manufacturers or buyers either. The radiator support wall appeared to have been painted in the same semi-gloss black when new.

I base my judgement of this from observation, noting that on this car, the black splash aprons and radiator support were quite dull, dust-impregnated (which doesn't happen readily with gloss finishes that are protected from the sun and weather), with patches of surface rust, indicating to me that no one had done any cosmetic restoration work on this car.

Hope this helps!

Art Anderson

[Guest]

Art ~ May I safely assume that when you refer to the underside of body panels being left in primer or primier color, that you are NOT including the underside of the hood in that "underside" area?

hvs

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Art ~ May I safely assume that when you refer to the underside of body panels being left in primer or primier color, that you are NOT including the underside of the hood in that "underside" area?

hvs </div></div>

Howard,

No, I wasn't including the hood in the "underside", underside referring to the bottom side of the body shell--the floor pans.

However, it isn't safe to assume that in all instances the underneath sides of hoods were fully painted the exterior color! It all had to do with the accepted practices and procedures of the individual assembly plant and the make in question.

I've seen undersides of hoods that barely got a lick & a promise from the paint crews, others with underside finishing rivaling the maker's best work of all--go figure!

Art Anderson