1989 Olds Cutlass International

[Guest]

I am the original owner of a 1989 Olds Cutlass International series. I special ordered the car new, it's loaded except for a sunroof. I opted for the 5 speed manual trans option for personal preference. It's traveled 170,000 miles and shows it's usage although it's not worn out nad was always taken care of. The car runs very nice and drives very nice as well and is currently in daily use. When I ordered this car I had hoped it would be a future classic/collectible and I'm hoping for some insight. It's time for some restoration or sale if it's not of special interest or not a current/future collectible. It's all original thus needing some interior repair and some exterior cosmetic work [original paint] but mechanically it's still great. I've found very little info but the dealer insists it's quite rare and a "keeper" as he calls it. How many were actually built with the 5 speed manual trans? Is it a "keeper" or just viewed as an oddball? I remember I could only get the 2.8 liter with that trans option and it's been great with plently of power and excellent fuel mileage. Any opinions, advice, stats, guidance, values, etc... to help me make a decision to either "restore" the car and keep it or part with it? Thanks in advance.

[rocketraider]

I agree with the dealer. Couldn't have been many 5-speeds built, and the International is high-line enough that it will someday be collectible.

My advice is if you plan to do any restoration, start getting parts now before GM discontinues them.

[Guest]

Your insight is very much appreciated. I would really like to find some #'s on how many were actually built, how they were optioned etc... I don't think this will ever be a valuble car due to the mileage or just based on the style, I mean it's no 1970 442 [wish I kept mine!]. I have however, enjoyed the car and it's looks appeal to me, especially if it were renewed. The 5 speed it great and they claim it's not only a rare 5 speed but it's the better of the 2 5 speeds offered, there's 2 different ones ?????? Anyway, one of the guys at the dealer asked me if I was ready to sell it and offered me $700. If that's all it's worth like it is I'd be foolish to "invest" money to "restore" it if I'd only double the value after spending much more. There's not many parts needed, in fact none that come to mind that I know of but it needs paint, some interior upholstery work [mostly drivers seat, rear is like new], has the warped dash at the defroster outlets like they all do, carpets dirty and just little annoying stuff. I got an estimate for paint from a well respected shop with a high quality job for $2200 and another from a less well known shop [although they say it will look factory] for just over half that. As far as mechanical, the emergency brake will stick in used and the power antenna works no more but everything else works just fine. I'm up in the air about it, is it only worth $700 or so for someone to use as transportation or should I keep and "restore" it, I just don't know. Thank you.

[imported_Badger Guy]

It's always hard to decide on something like this. I have a 71 H/O. There is no way anybody would have paid the amount of money I have in this car when it was new. Remember you said you wish you would have kept yor 70 442? Thats where it starts. It's hard to say "let's keep this car cause someday it will be a classic". I will never get the money back that I have spent on my cars. But then I never would have enjoyed myself so much if I dint have my cars. I don't look at a car as an investment. Thats what banks and the stock market are for.(although it dosent look that way now) If you have the space and money isn't a big issue, keep the car. Work on it slowly. My 71 took 6 years, and still going at it. Look at it this way. You were only offered 700 for it. 10 years from now you can say that was real cheap for a classic.

[Guest]

Thanks for your input. I do have the room to store it and money is not the motivating factor to sell as $700 wont make or break me. I have no desire however to let it set up and deteriorate or be of no worthy use to me. This cerainly would not be a complete "frame off" restoration it really just needs some attention cosmetically but it's been a southern car and there's no rust issues. It still looks great but there is some clear coat coming off and a scrape with a slight indent on the drivers side quarter panel appx 2 feet long but no major issues. I've enjoyed the car over the years but it's never been an "attention getter", most people don't have a clue what it is or could care less, all they see is your average car. Some will take note of the quad bucket seats or note the International series badges and ask questions but the 5 speed really looks very much like an automatic shifter at first glance. I'm torn on what to do, $700 is probably a reasonable price to expect for a 15 year old car with 170K miles but it's not an average car. I just can't get the thought out of my head [like you say] of me saying 10 years down the road, I wish I had kept that Cutlass. My wife says it's been around long enough and she is amazed I'll hop in the car versus the new Yukon. I didn't have her when I bought the Olds [so I wonder who should go LOL!] and she use to love it as well but you know women! I think I'll hold out for a while, at least until Spring and then maybe spend the $ for a new paint job. What is it with guys and there cars? I know there's 3 in my past that I wish I had never got rid of, how many guys can say that about ex wives [no experience in that area though]? THANKS guys!

[Guest]

I did some research today as well as made a few phone calls and collectively I was told there were probably less than 200 International Series cars with the 5 speed manual transmission installed. I was also told that mine has the 284 versus the 282 [i think those were the #'s referenced] 5 speed which is very rare. I don't recall a choice other than simply a 5 speed versus an automatic when I ordered it. I don't know, I sure wish there was more info available on these. One site only said that the 5 speed was a RARE option but no #'s as to how many. I have not been able to find any grey '89s, they all seem to be red, black or white????? Mine also has a plate in the deck lid that says WS6, what does that mean? If I remember correctly it was an upgraded suspension. I no longer have the window sticker, wish I did. I've heard Corvettes have build sheets on top of the tank and some cars have it under the rear seat. I guess I'll remove the seat to check it out. One guy I spoke with said it could have the upgrades like the pace cars had ????????? I never knew a Cutlass was a pace car.

[Reatta Man]

Yes, the International with a 5-speed is VERY rare, and that creates some interesting dilemas.

The reason you have trouble finding data on the transmission is because it is so rare. Probably most of the manual tranny cars were ordered by the purchaser. Most dealers would never take the chance of having one sit around for months because so many people were raised on automatics and can't drive it.

One of the dilemas you face is getting parts for the tranny if it goes out. Check with a couple of reliable tranny shops and find out if that unit has any weak spots, or if they would have any problems rebuilding it. If the shop tells you that they have a lot of troble finding key components likely to wear out, such as synchronizers, you have two choices--sell the car while it is running, or start looking around for a complete, working transmission. Having a complete transmission sitting in the attic in a box may not seem like a good idea to your wife, but if you are going to drive a car pushing 15 years old, finding and keeping major components you will likely need later is part of the game.

As for the dealer and his 'generous' offer, you can be sure that if you took him up on his offer, one of two things would happen. Your car would get a quicky paint job and show up on his lot for $4995 with a 'one owner' banner on the windshield, or he would take it and put it in HIS garage. The question you need to ask is this--can you replace your car for $700? Not an exact match, mind you, but a car as reliable and solid as yours is--or isn't. Chances are, you can't get anything that will run more than three days out of five for under $1200, so keeping the car sounds like a good deal.

If you decide to keep it, then ask yourself how much you are willing to put into it--in other words, build a budget. Here's a few suggestions for your budget:

PAINT--If you shop around, you can get a good paint job for under $500 in many production shops such as MAACO, Earl Scheib or a local independent shop. Throw in some minor body work (you'll be surprised how much minor flaws will show up under fresh paint) and you should still be under $1,000. Mind you, this is not a show quality paint job, but rather a good job for a car you will be driving every day. The important thing here is to look at some examples of the shop's work before you let them have your car. A good shop will gladly let you see some completed cars waiting for their owners to pick them up. If the shop won't show you their work, look elsewhere. You are looking for a paint job with a good shine and a smooth feel. if it has a dull or milky look to it, or you feel lots of specs in the paint of a freshly painted car, look elsewhere.

TIRES--How much do you want to spend? If your car came with 70, 65 or 60 series 15 inch tires, you can get a good set of brand name white letter radials for under $500. That will go a long way, along with the new paint, to giving it a lot of curb appeal. If you are not sure of the size, any reliable tire shop can look up your car's OEM tire size. Some shops will have specials on discontinued lines or slow-moving sizes. You could get a set of white-letter radials for as little as $300, including balancing and new valve stems.

WHEELS--GM wasn't known for their great looking wheels in the late 80's, and many of them lost their clear coat and then turned dull. If you check around, you could probably find a newer set of chrome plated alloys off of a late model Olds, such as an Aurora, Intrigue or Alero from a salvage yard. They can tell you if the new wheel's lug pattern and offset will fit your car. Expect to pay about $250-400 for a great set of chrome wheels. Keep in mind that many of them will be 16" wheels. If you are going to go this route, find the wheels before you buy the tires.

INTERIOR -- You'll be amazed at how much a good auto upholstery shop can do with your interior. New carpet will run about $100-150, a new headliner about $75-100, and both front seats can probably be redone in the original fabric for about $300-350.

TUNES -- If you haven't upgraded your OEM sound system, this is the time to take the plunge. If you can install it yourself, a good brand name head unit, speakers and amp can be bought on a budget for well under $400. If you have to have it installed, some retailers offer to install units you buy from them for free or for a small fee. One note of caution--check their work. A lot of stores do the installations in the back for a reason. That is because the people they hire should be working in a local salvage yard stripping cars rather than installing components.

MECHANICAL -- If you haven't become a believer in preventive maintenance, at 170,000 miles it is time to see the light and become a believer. If you are on your original water pump, fuel pump, alternator and radiator, they are going to leave you stranded. Better to buy the parts yourself and replace them in your driveway on your own schedule than to pay big bucks for a tow and shop installation prices after they leave you stranded. Same goes for the air conditioner. If you still have the original R-12 system and it has stopped cooling, go ahead and get it converted to R-134a. It is not too expensive, depending on what components need to be replaced.

If you work on a budget, you will spend about $1,700-$2,700 to end up with a dependable, good looking PAID FOR rare car that you still like. If that sounds high, go back to the dealer that offered you $700 and tell him you want a dependable, good looking car for $2,500. You'll either get the 'deer caught in the headlights' blank stare or he will laugh out loud and tell you it doesn't exist. Once you have the major components looking good, you can redo other things as time and your budget permits, such as exhaust work, shocks and struts and brakes, unless those things need to be done now as well.

Good luck and have fun with your rare Olds!

Joe

[Guest]

WOW! You spent a great deal of time on that response. I sure do appreciate your thoroughness and time but I'm quite familiar with the "restoration" process just looking more for production #'s.

This car was maintaned very well, I've got a 3" thick binder to prove it. I know that mechanically anything can happen at this mileage but I'd trust it anywhere at any time for many many more miles. The issue was more on thr collectability of the car versus the "investment" to restore [maybe freshen up is a better term]. By the way, it has the original wheels which are 16" and very attractive, International Series only wheels. I don't want to alter anything, keeping it original is my desire.

It was a mechanic at the dealership who made the offer to buy not one of the salesmen. I was just back in for a wheel balance after one wheel weight came loose and the same guy now offered $1000 bucks. I told him I was going to just keep it and bring it back to life which made him a bit upset. I know he really wanted it, he's been bugging me for 3 years now and I believe he thought he finally had it. Once he knew I wasn't going to sell, he admitted it was worth more $ due to it's rarity/condition. I told him of my plans and I think he's even more excited than me.

I've convinced my wife, I told her it was either this or a Harley and she quickly said "please restore the Olds".

Amen!

[86 2dr.ltd]

I would fix it no questions asked. That is a really nice car and with the 5 sp what a joy to drive, I can only imagine. Any of the W bodys with the standard were rare. No they are not worth much now and you are right about the milage and use on it it wont be a big buck car, but if its one of the few left ? ? ? Who knows. Nothing from the eightys is worth anything now Vettes,GN's, IROC's and Camaro convertables maybe. In fact it seems the used car lots cant sell them (cars from the 80's). I remember in the 70's this was the case with say 69 Camaros, go buy one today. Even Barracudas were turned into $500 rust bombs. I wonder how many split bumper 70 Camaros were trashed by my unknown teenage comrades ? My close friend finished off a nice 69 307 3sp stick Camaro, then went to work on a 74/75? highly modified Z28. I bought a fairly nice 64 Sunbeam Alpine for $325.00 restored it and drove it for 2 years, parked it and let Mother Nature reclaim it. It would be worth 6-8000 today in the shape I parked it in 20 years ago.

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?sid=539c2158d7d24c1259f5b897e295bb20

I just ran across this tonight in my local

1989 GRAND PRIX

5spd, V6 2.8L, 200kmi, runs well, new alt, frt brakes/rotors, very rare, must sell, $500 B/O, trades West Havestraw, NY (845) 429-9367

The bad news as far as future value goes in my opinion is today cars are getting better, advancing performance goes up every year. In the era that is now of value,pre 73/72 was the period before cars kinda started going backwards, you know - bumpers, low performance engines and in my opinion styling went really bland around 77-78. Except for the bumpers I believe the 73-76/77's deserve more attention then they get. However the mid/late eighties was a turn around with new innovations, styling and the bumpers began to flow back into the bodys instead of protrude like a fat lip.

[Guest]

Hi! I try to check back in here every few days. THANKS for the link, I have that saved in my favorites already, some good info. I think finding any additional info is just not going to happen unfortunately.

That GP sounds interesting but I bet rust has taken it's toll, there's nothing like a southern car Also, the GP's weren't all that uncommon even with the 5 speeds [and as I understand it, a totally different trans], your typical Olds buyer was not interested in a 5 speed even in a special addition series. Now if the GP was a GTP, it's another story [if they were even made back then, I'm not certain]. The Cutlass Internationals are very unique in styling both in and out with many ammenities not found in the other GM's line up. Also take into consideration that Olds is done, no more.

I absolutely enjoy this car, I really do. It will get the attention it deserves and I'm a perfectionist. I've tried to keep it as nice as possible but the mid/late 80's paint problems are out of my control. Really, it needs paint [mainly only the roof and hood though] but it still looks okay from a distance [a 20 footer]. I took a few photos today, I'll attach one to this post.

I do appreciate the encouragement to redo this car, if it's never worth much that's okay I guess because I enjoy it.

[Guest]

and an interior shot.....

[86 2dr.ltd]

Looks great, I always like the FWD Cutlass Supremes and felt it or the 2dr.Cierra GT would have been a better car for the 442 package than the Chalias they put it on. However the Chalais was the only Olds that had a Olds motor in it at that time, maybe that was why ? They were focusing on the Quad 4. I'd like to have a Cierra GT and put a 442 inspired paint job on it.

My interest was raised on that GP I posted because I would like to use that tranny hooked to my 3800TP Regal. Way to much work but I like to dream. Then I find your post less than an hour later and thought, when it rains it pours.

In 89/90 there was a TGP. It was a Maclarren turbocharged 3.1 with other great goodies. I looked at one last fall but had to control myself and not buy it, very nice car. None were built with the manual. Some guys have converted to the 5sp using cars like the one I found. Then theres guys there that have put the Mclarren engine in other cars including 4dr Cutlass's, Cavalier Z24's. Spend some time around that site and you'll realize how important your car really is.

Ive never looked at a International, dont even see many Cutlass supremes anymore. I went for my Regal in the end because of my experience with the Buick 3.8. I passed on a few 2.8 & 3.1 powered Regal GS's, a 2.8 Supreme and that TGP, but a 5 sp Cutlass may have got my attention. Looks like its got the GFX cladding on it, very nice I like it, glad to see a enthousiastic original owner.

[Guest]

Hi again. Thanks! Me too, they should have done the 442 option on a Cutlass in the later years, I'd have bought one . I wish I had bought that '85 Cutlass 442, with the lightening rods and T-Tops I saw in the showroom back then but I knew it would be several years before I could afford it at that time [college came first and I was 25, broke, working and attending school a few years later than most]. All the Internationals in '89 had the silver ground effects and 16" special wheels. I bought my wife a new 1992 [the year we were married] Olds Achieva SCX, of course with the 5 speed too only it was a Quad 4 but I still liked it. We gave that to my niece last year as a loaner college car, in a year we'll get it back [that was the deal], not sure what we'll do with it then. It's considered a rare car as well but I see many more of them around or advertised online but I haven't seen too many Cutlass International Series lately, certainly not another 5 speed in a long time. I also like the Achieva's dual exhaust outlets on each side versus the Cutlass's only 1 side, although with 2 ports. The Cutlass, especially the International is a much better car and it's 2.8 has been great [excellent performance, reliability and fuel economy] as the mileage indicates.

I never get the "man, nice car" or "wow, a Cutlass" comments like the guys with the older cars do but I still think it's a classic or will be. Now, if I point out the 5 speed and the fact it's an International Series then ears perk up a bit. It never was and will never be a muscle car for sure or a valuable car but then again it's "only" 15 years old. I'll get it back into top shape and just use it for going to the car shows or pleasure even if no one else appreciates it

The 4 bucket seating is neat, it has many ammenitites, the 5 speed is a plus and I think it's a nice looking style car if I say so myself. I've pulled it behind a motor home, it's equiped with the plug ins and it's got a frame mount class 1 hitch I used to pull my jet ski in the past. I used it but never abused it so to speak and only cosmetics are needed. I do wish it had a sunroof, factory I mean, I'm not about to cut a hole in it.

I'm certainly an enthusiastic owner, my wife nearly had me convinced to sell it, glad that ending has changed. I enjoy and appreciate your wisdom and always like to know more about the W-body cars.

Regards

[86 2dr.ltd]

Yes, the Cutlass is the cleanest of the W bodys for styling. The GP is great but the TGP flares and GFX's have that stuck on look. The Regal is sharp but the tail end should have been thought about more.

Funny I was going to say something about the Acheiva & Q4 last post. I always stop to see if they have the 5sp when I see them in lots. SCX's? I have not seen one locally yet, since I've been concerned that is. So your Q4 has been alright ? I think they were a great idea and was bummed out to hear that they were troublesome. I helped some friends change one in a Grand Am and liked what I saw.

I dont have alot of knowledge about cars really, what I do is just stuff I;ve learned in the last 3-4 years. From 83-00 I was a self employed logger and was plenty tied up with keeping up my one machine, one heavy truck, one site truck and a pickup and everything else that goes with it. I bought the 86 LeSabre for the wife in 95 and simply liked it and it began my renewed interest in cars, which prior to "the woods" was mainly European sports cars. The LeSabre and new FWD platforms, non boxy styling and better approach to engines & suspensions changed my opinion and gave me hope for the Domestics which was destroyed with the steady decline of styling in the late 70's and relentless persuit of huge gas guzzling cast iron push rod carburated V8's now I own 2 of those monsters funny how things change. Now I have no interest in BMW's ,ect. I have realized I'll never be in the Ferrari tax bracket and find many Buicks and Oldsmobiles fit my personality and tastes just fine. I still want a pre 73 Fiat 124 though. I will always miss my Alpine and MG's are like Chevys to me. Too common.

[Guest]

Yes, I'm of course partial to the Cutlass though

The Achieva SCX is a bit different than an SL or SC. It's got the Quad4 HO 190 HP "W-41" option. We've never had a problem with it [knock on wood], gave it to my niece with 135,000 on it and currently I believe it's right at 150K. I know the stories about the Quad4's, head gaskets, timing chains, thrust bearings, etc... not to mention the poor automatic trans [would never own one in a US car]. We of course maintain our cars and that alone leads to longevity.

I too am a bit of a European can enthusiast myself. I had a Euro 1984 BMW 323i [Euro spec 6 cyl] coupe with the 5 speed which my wife drove before we were married. I called it my little ///M3, it was the M3 of it's time. I loved that car but time pretty much ate it up, it was costly to maintain and it was then wrecked [hit broadside] so it was parted out. Just the Euro lights and Euro bumpers fetched big $. The drive train went into a friends older 320i for a few hundred $ in my pocket. Ah, the "good old days!"

Ferrari tax bracket, me either but I wouldn't buy one anyway. A friend of my fathers, Charles Preston, owned Prestons Auto in York, PA and he was a Fiat/Lancia dealer back in the late 70's - early 80's. I remember wanting one of those Fiat Spyder Pininifarinia's or a Lancia Scorpion sitting in the showroom when we ocassionaly stopped by to see Charlie. I also remember they were nothing but problems, the saying was FIAT = Fix It Again Tony! I always had to work for my $ so I always opted for a reliable car not having much extra for repairs. Now that I'm "set" [or at least comfortable] I have been looking for a mid life crisis vehicle. I want a Harley but I haven't ridden in nearly 20 years when just after high school I bought a used 78 or 79 Kawasaki KZ1000. My wife says NO and that's how I talked her into "restoring" the Cutlass. It's a lot cheaper too so maybe in a few years I can convince her I need a Harley or Corvette [knowing the Corvette would prevail]

I've always bought practical cars and as you can tell, I take care of them for the long haul. I've attached a photo [excuse my photography skills] of the rear bucket seats/console only found in an International Series.

Thanks for your input, it's been a pleasure.

[86 2dr.ltd]

Yea, but was the problewm F I A T or T O N Y ? I've heard all kinds of stuff like that just like we said about the Q4 but sometimes you just gotta feel some people can brake anything and some people think "can turn wrenches therefore am mechanic". Just like Lucan electronics, but I never had any problems with my Alpine I only drove it a year and a half but it never let me down. The biggest junks I owned were a 68 Impala and a 64 Ford pickup, sure they were old and tired but Chevy V8's were never know for longevity. Part of where the 90,000 miles get rid of them attitude came from.

One of my oldest closest friends has a Scorpion, got some hail damage 10 years ago and he never did anything with it. Just sits in his garage. It was a great car when he did drive it but it was just a secondary like a sports car really is anyhow. He also got into Vettes around that time and is pretty much the reason he didnt get back after the car. That and the hail storm was only two years after he had it painted. Disheartened I guess.

Im not afraid of a Fiat and really like that old style small 2 seat convertable sports car. Drove one for a year and a half and it was one of the greatest rides and auto experiences I ever had. Didnt get the same feel out of our 75 Olds. Nice but not the same.