Bad inner tie rod ends - questions - 92 Buick

[Guest Shaffer]

More good news on my 92 Buick Park Avenue. I took it today to have the front end aligned and they said the inner tie-rods are bad and it cannot be aligned until those are replaced. They quoted my $150. to replace. Are the inner rods located inside the steering rack? Do these cars have rack and pinion steering? Thanks.

[Barney Eaton]

Technially they are not what we would identify as a standard tie rod but there is an inner joint. The parts manual that I am referring to would indicate you must remove the boot and unscrew the tie rod from the rack. The joint (tie rod end) is part of the tie rod so they would be replacing the whole rod.

How they determine it is the joint and not looseness within the rack assembly would be a question I would ask. You cannot see the joint without removing the boot. You did not mention the mileage on the car but we have lots of Reattas out ther with 150k miles that have never had a problem.

[NTX5467]

We see much more activity on outer tie rod ends than inners. Haven't seen that many complaints with "looseness" in the steering on any rack and pinion unit that I can recall and I don't know if GM admits to there being any adjustment for wear as there is on the recirculating ball steering gear box. Of course, replacing either the outer or inner tie rod end will require at least the toe-in to be reset. If the price you mentioned is for the parts, labor, and alignment check, then it's not too bad. Of course, you could get a second opinion from another shop too.

What led you to suspect the front suspension needed attention? Just curious.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest Shaffer]

The car was/is pulling to the right. Also, when the roads are wet and I make a turn- I can feel the car "scoot" on the wet roads. I knew it was something with the alignment causing that. I am not 100% sure if he said $150. parts and labor. That may have just been for parts. BTW- the car has 150K miles. Thanks again for the replies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What led you to suspect the front suspension needed attention? Just curious.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467 </div></div>

[NTX5467]

A "pull" situation would relate, typically, to the caster adjustment, which is not easily adjustable on vehicles with strut suspensions (you have to elongate the upper strut mount holes to get any adjustment from what the factory setting is). That would lead me to suspect a tire situation more than an alignment situation. Plus, you have to allow for the road crown (which can be more than you suspect) in many situations too.

What you might also check is to jack up the front end of the car, getting both wheels off the ground (using jack stands for safety reasons should the jack start bleeding down). Then start the car (in "Park") with the steering wheel centered. If the wheel starts turning in one direction (probably to the side you're experiencing the "pull" from) by itself with the engine running, then the "pull" will be more from the control valve in the rack having a problem than from alignment or tire issues.

If this happens, you might buy some quality power steering fluid (hopefully GM as the quality can vary, even though it's more expensive, or a name brand fluid that is spec'd for GM cars) and flush the steering system. There are some aftermarket flush kits that are also designed to clean the system from excess wax buildup or other deposits. Follow the directions on the kit. Berryman's has a kit that we sell to our shop techs, but finding it or something similar outside of a dealership might be a task. You'll probably need a couple of quarts, at least.

As for the tires' contribution to a pull situation, swap them front to back and see if that changes anything. Might be a belt getting ready to separate or something similar. As temps have varied lately, make sure the inflation pressure is in the "correct" ball park too. These might be the first things to do and then check the rack operation next.

As for looseness in the rack, I checked with our front end tech and he was of the orientation that if the rack is old enough to need adjustment, it probably is "toast" (his word) and would need to be replaced anyway. ACDelco and others have reman steering racks in the aftermarket. Changing the steering rack assembly would be the last thing to do in this scenario.

There are "short racks" and "long racks", with the main difference (other than cost) being whether or not the inner tie rods are included.

Hope this helps,

NTX5467

[Guest Shaffer]

To update- I had the inner tie-rod ends replaced at a local repair shop yesterday. The steering is much tighter now, and no more of that "thumping" sound from the steering under the hood. That sound kept getting worse and worse- until I parked the car, until I had time to take it and have it repaired. It still pulls slightly to the right, and there is a slight shake in the steering. My father drove the car and he said it felt like a tire had a broken belt- which is why it was rocking. I guess the steering like that really ate up my front tires. I am going to have new ones installed and if the "pull" to the right does not go away- I am going to take it back to that shop and tell them it is still pulling and make them check the alignment again. The car is also setting about 1-2 inches higher in the front than before. I had no idea that bad tie-rods could cause a car to sag in the front.

[decembro]

My guess would be that your steering wheel shake and your pull is due to your front tires. Radial tires will cause a front end pull if bad enough, and tires out of balance will cause the vibration at highway speeds. If the shake is at a slower speed (under 30mph) then you probably have a shifted or broken belt in one of the front tires. Bad tie rods will never cause a car to sag. Springs are likely to sag with old age and the only way to change the springs is to remove the struts and disassemble them with a strut compressor.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for the update. It might be a little extreme, but did they also adjust the tire pressure in the front tires when they had it in the repair shop? Maybe too much air or something? Is the rear also sitting lower too?

I can't think of anything that would, in the course of that repair, alter the springs or anything to do with the front struts to increase the ride height of the front of the car (in concurrance to what was mentioned). I would be more concerned with that than the tire situation (which should be easily fixed or attended to).

NTX5467

[Guest Shaffer]

Thanks for the replies. About the tires- my father also said it was a bad tire with a broken belt, as it does shake/wobble at speeds below 30 mph. Actually- even at 5-10mph I can feel it wobble- so one of the front tires is definitely shot. I am not sure if they checked the tire pressure or not, but I think it was bad anyway- which is why before the new tie-rod ends, it had the constant, steady clunking when the wheel was just slightly turned to the left. Actually- the rear of the car has set lower for a while since I removed the fuse for the rear air struts. The motor was running way too often and the car really never set level- with all of the junk I had/have in the trunk, but I am going to remove all of the junk in the trunk and reinstall the fuse. I too thought it was odd that the car was setting higher in the front- but it is indeed at least 1 inch higher. Me saying 2 may have been a little over estimated. The gap between the top of the tire and the fender are clearly farther apart. Very strange. Anyway- I an going to have new tires installed next week- at least on the front. Rear seem OK, with good tread. I will post the results after I get them installed. I have 3 other cars, so it may be a while before I "find" the time to take it and have tires installed. It took me several weeks to finally get it to the shop and have these tie-rods installed. Thanks again for the replies.