generator for 1936 Deluxe 8

[Decomobile]

I'm new to this group and to Pontiacs in general. I have an original 1936 Deluxe 8 Business Coupe which has a charging problem. The car discharges the battery and the engine dies when one of the battery cables is removed. Generator is putting out proper voltage but amperage? Not sure how to test. The generator is a Delco-Remy model 11?2708 (not sure what the no. is where the "?" is. Was wondering if this one is original to the car and if not, can I find an original or just have this one rebuilt? Also, what is a good regulator to use? Thanks in advance for your help.

[straight8pontiac]

Decomobile- I am referencing a Hollander Manual from that time period and it shows that the 1935 and 1936 models of both 6 and 8 cylinders used generator #935W.  I am trying to use your 11?2708 number to find its application and have had no success.

 

If you are not aware, The Early Times Chapter of the Pontiac Oakland Club International is a great resource. Good luck, keep asking questions, and keep us posted- Dave

[Decomobile]

Thanks Dave. I've already joined the Early Times Chapter but didn't think they have an online forum. What brand of generator is no. 935W?

Brent

[straight8pontiac]

Decomobile,  Being a GM division, I'm sure it would be a Delco product. POCI has a Tech Forum at http://www.poci.org.

 

They also have Tech advisors. For 1936 Pontiac it is Robert Shafto, 451 Blackstrap Rd., Falmouth, Maine 04105. Phone is 207-272-7403 also rgshafto@me.com.

 

Another person who can probably help is Kurt Kelsey in Iowa who sells early Pontiac parts. Phone 641-648-9086 and kelsey@praireinet.net

 

Good luck- Dave

 

 

[Peter R.]

The generator originally used on the 1936 Pontiac 8 was Delco-Remy 935-W.

 

Taxicabs used 936-R.

 

1102708 was used on 1949 Buick 70 (Roadmaster).

 

In 1937 Delco-Remy started using 7-digit numbers to identify starters, generators and distributors.

 

110xxxx numbers for starters and generators 

111xxxx numbers for distributors 

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

4 hours ago, Decomobile said:

Not sure how to test.

I can gladly send you some Delco-Remy Service Bulletins so you understand how things work and how to test.

[Decomobile]

Thanks so much guys. Peter, I would like to receive those bulletins but can't PM yet as the forum requires a minimum of 20 or so posts before they allow it. Can you attach to a post here? Brent

[Decomobile]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a new replacement voltage regulator?

[Peter R.]

50 minutes ago, Decomobile said:

Can you attach to a post here?

Brent,

Sure, I'll gladly post the Bulletins here.....but I'll do it tomorrow.....it's 1 AM in this neck of the woods and I need to get some sleep..... 🙂

 

Are you currently using the original 935-W VR on the 1102708 generator?

PS: I have around 500 voltage regulators in stock.

 

Peter

Edited December 6, 2021 by Peter R. (see edit history)

[Decomobile]

Peter,

Thanks. My car has the 1102708 generator but it may need refurbishing--not sure yet if my problem is the generator or the regulator.

Brent

[Bloo]

The system is completely different depending of you are using the original generator or a 1949 Buick generator. The original generator is a 3 brush (with voltage regulator) and is not interchangeable with anything Buick used in the 40s.

 

This is a bit of a can of worms because the 1936 Eights have an autostart system like a Buick, and it is tied into the voltage regulator. Does your car still have this?

 

You will need to solidly decide which direction you will go before you overhaul anything or buy any regulators.

 

The original system is 3 brush and is only about 15 amps. I have a 1936 Master Six here with an original working system and can post any pictures or details you need if you decide to go that way. The regulator is a 2 relay unit with 5 terminals. I am still investigating, but I don't believe 15 amps is enough to carry the current production 50/32 candlepower headlight bulbs indefinitely, so that is one potential reason for changing it.

 

A second possibility is a 1937 Buick Special (40) generator. It has 10 more amps than the original Pontiac generator, has some circuitry changes to make the output less peaky over the RPM range, and bolts on. It is 100% compatible with the original Pontiac regulator. It is physically larger in diameter.

 

The generator on the 1937 Buick 60-80-90 is identical to the 40 except for the pulley, but you still need the pulley from the Buick 40, because the Buick 60-80-90 pulley is too wide, and the Pontiac one is too big.

 

The 1949 Buick generator is a 2 brush generator. It is going to need a 3 terminal 3 relay voltage regulator as used on a 49 Buick (and many other GM cars). It is not compatible with the 1936 Pontiac regulator. This is probably more like a 40 or 45 amp system, and with real current regulation. No question this is the best system being discussed, but might not integrate well with the autostart system.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Decomobile]

Thanks again for the good info. I'm not familiar with the autostart system but since this 49 Buick generator has been on the car for many years prior to my ownership I assume it has been working well. The current regulator is also not original to the car. So I guess I'll stick with it try and find out what the problem is. In that case can anyone recommend an appropriate/best replacement regulator (brand and source) for 1102708 generator? I can post a photo of the current regulator later today if that helps.

 

 

[Peter R.]

As Bloo said, your Pontiac used a vibrating voltage regulated third brush generator and the 49 Buick was equipped with a current and voltage regulated shunt type generator. 
I‘ll start posting the Buick era Service Bulletins first and will gladly post the same Bulletins for the Pontiac era generators at a later point so we don‘t mix things up.

 

First of all the Buick wiring diagram:

 

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

.....guess this will keep you busy for a while 🙂

[Decomobile]

Many thanks Peter...yes, a lot to digest there.

[Bloo]

@Peter R., Thank you for posting all that!

 

 

[Bloo]

12 hours ago, Decomobile said:

Thanks again for the good info. I'm not familiar with the autostart system but since this 49 Buick generator has been on the car for many years prior to my ownership I assume it has been working well. The current regulator is also not original to the car. So I guess I'll stick with it try and find out what the problem is. In that case can anyone recommend an appropriate/best replacement regulator (brand and source) for 1102708 generator? I can post a photo of the current regulator later today if that helps.

 

 

 

How do you start the car? With autostart, you turn the ignition on with a key switch, but when you step on the gas pedal the starter engages and the car starts.

 

If the starter runs from the key, or a button, or a separate pedal on the floor, something has been changed.

 

Yes, it would be helpful to know what type regulator you currently have. I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace it unless it turns out to be incompatible. New production regulators have a really bad reputation. If it needs replacing, you would probably be looking for NOS/NORS or a used unit to get a quality part that will actually work. There's not a lot to go wrong with them that a little cleaning or adjusting wont fix.

 

 

[Decomobile]

Thanks. I start it with the key on and stepping on the gas pedal just as you described.

[Decomobile]

Here are a couple photos of the regulator on the car. I peeled some fraying insulation off one of the wires and I know that has to be recovered. Can anyone tell me more about it? Thanks.

[Peter R.]

Original Delco-Remy regulators have the part number stamped to the base.

It would either be 118357 or just the last three digits 357 (if original 49 Buick). Or are there and other numbers on it (after market unit).

 

[Decomobile]

Thanks. I think it's a much more recent aftermarket regulator and the cover isn't marked.

[Peter R.]

When you remove the regulator from the fire wall you might find a number on the bottom.

 

The following aftermarket regulators replace Delco-Remy Regulator 1118357:

 

Filko VRD-430HD

Standard VR-1 or VR-340

Blue Streak VR-1XP or VR-340X

P&D VR-117H

Ampco VR-680

Shurhit R131 or IR131

Illaco 590 635

and others

[Peter R.]

For example Filko:

 

[Peter R.]

[Decomobile]

Thanks Peter. Are any of those brands better than others?

[Bloo]

Was the car's present charging system ever working for you, or did you buy it with a charging problem?

 

 

[Decomobile]

I bought it with a new battery installed but I don't think the charging system was working properly...been sitting for many years.

[Bloo]

You might want to verify that it is wired correctly.

 

The original voltage regulator had 5 terminals. Here they are in no particular order: 1) The first wire is switched ignition power. It will not be used at all with your later model charging system. It should probably be taped up. 2) The second is a ground for the autostart system. Originally the voltage regulator disconnected it once the engine was running. I don't know what they did here when they made the changes to your car, they might have permanently grounded it, or they might have piggybacked it on the new regulator somehow. Since the car starts, assume this one is OK for now. We can revisit it later if we need to. 3) The third wire is the big wire that feeds all power to the car and charges your battery. It should go under the dash, probably to the headlight switch, and is buried in the main harness so you cant really see. This one goes to the "BAT" terminal on your 3-terminal regualtor. 4) The fourth wire is the main charging wire from the generator. It connects to the armature terminal of the generator, and the other end connects the "ARM" or "GEN" terminal of your 3 terminal regulator. This is a fairly big wire, probably a number 12 or so. 5) The fifth wire is the field wire. One end connects to the field terminal on the generator, and the other end to the "FLD" terminal on the 3-terminal regulator.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Decomobile]

Thanks Bloo. This is very helpful. I'll save it for when I get this sorted out--not sure yet whether I have a generator problem, regulator problem, or both.

[Decomobile]

I'll check to see if it's wired correctly according to your instructions.